Upgrade to 200AMP or keep 100AMP?

[millinghill]

Dear Readers, I'm getting contractors' quotes on replacing my existing main electrical panel (The subpanel for the house distribution is circuit breakers, but the main panel is old 100amp fuse block, not circuit breakers.). Some of them are saying that replacement of the line from the power company to my main box must be done with such a replacement, and that I should upgrade to 200AMP service while I'm at it. I've been just fine with 100AMP service. My house is 1500sqft. I ran calcs (following guidelines in an electrical load design book) that showed even if I "finished" my basement and had window air conditioners in most rooms, and the electric stove blaring, I would not exceed 100AMPS. I can't imagine I will ever install central air, and my property can't fit a pool. So, my opinion is I have no big electric loads in the foreseeable future.

Question #1: to replace main panel, is it standard procedure to replace service line drop? Question #2: If #1 is NOT true, should I upgrade to 200AMP service now just because they're doing the work right there? Is there a realistic benefit other than looking good on a real estate listing when I sell in 20years?

Thanks

Theodore

[chaniarts]

do you ever want to get a large compressor in your garage? how about your wife wanting to get into ceramics? how about the next owner? making it 200a now would definitely make a resale easier, and make it more cost effective for you if you ever want to get into a hobby that requires higher power.

[Jim Elbrecht]

-snip-

Don't know if it is standard-- but if mine was 20 years old & I was about to spend a couple grand, I'd spend the extra couple hundred for a new drop.

I would just because it would increase the cost so little at this point-- but if they come out with that 3-D printer for your home that draws 100amps- you'd be ready for it.

[More realistic amp suckers might be a Hot Tub, welder, electric car;

- and who knows, if they perfect solar cells, maybe all-electric houses will come back in vogue- then you'd want to heat with it.]

Jim

[Vic Smith]

Local codes have a lot to do with it. When I lived in Chicago my service line was burned off when a neighbor's garage burned down. The city required me to put in a 100 Amp circuit breaker box. Power company put in a new meter.

Many service lines on older houses are only rated for 100 Amps. When I moved into my current home I wanted central air. I had a 200 Amp service put in for $1200. 12 years ago. That included running a 240v line and box to where the furnace would be placed. And a big honking pipe through the roof. The power company put in a new meter, but I don't remember who ran the new service lines.

The electrician was happy to get the 6 old 15 or 20 Amp circuit breakers from the old box. Said they are really hard to find and worth about 30 bucks each. He also split some of my existing circuits saying they needed splitting. There's 12 now. And he ran a 120v run all the way to the back of the basement for my workbench. Think he was paying me back for the rare old breakers he scored.

You should really shop around because electricians rates can widely vary. And find out what the real answer is about the new service drop.

I also remember the electrician telling me he was putting in a big circuit box for the price of a smaller one at no extra charge, because it was better - and because it was the only one he had in his truck. It can hold 30 breakers. The city inspector was a little shocked when he saw it. If I ever get my power splits like I want them I might use 20-22.

Besides the A/C, it's handy to have 240v ready in case you want, say, a 240v air compressor. So you have to find out the real cost difference. Personally, I wouldn't have seconds thoughts until it got past a few hundred dollars difference. Gives you a flexibility you might need later.

--Vic

[gfretwell]

A lot of home inspectors will beat you up for not having 200a but generally speaking they are not very knowledgable about electric stuff. If you go one for one 100 to 100 I can't imagine why the PoCo would need to upgrade your service drop and if it has been changed in the last 2 or 3 decades (twisted triplex vs the three standard strands in the olden days) it is probably OK for 200a. The thing that would have to be replaced would be the "service entrance" between the service head and the panel (via the meter).

The actual difference in price between 100, 150 and 200 is insignificant tho so if they are replacing the SE cable, it might be worth doing the upgrade.

[RBM]

If you didn't have to touch it, I wouldn't even consider upgrading to 200 amp. In your situation you'll probably never need it, but since your having most of the service replaced anyway, the cost difference between 100 and 200 really is negligible. 150 amp services are just stupid in my opinion.

[Steve B]

Go with the 200. You can only put so many MOS (multiple outlet strips) into one outlet before it gets complicated.

And visually interesting.

Steve

Heart surgery pending? Read up and prepare. Learn how to care for a friend.

[aemeijers]

Just to make it easier for your heirs to sell the place, go for the 200. Call your power company to discuss- if your drop is old anyway, they may cut you a price break on the upgrade. Cheap insurance for them- a lot easier to change on a sunny September morning, than at 0200 in a January blizzard.

[Ed Pawlowski]

"millinghill" wrote

What is the cost difference? If only a few bucks more, I'd go for 200. If it was a bundle more, I'd stay with the 100. Some time pack in the 50's or so, 100A service started to become the common service and is still adequate for most of us. What will the future hold? Who knows, but if you can get it for a reasonable price, do it and be ready.

[krw]

Some will do it free (the drop, not the panel), with the expectation of higher bills.

[jw]

I dont see why you need to change the power wires from the pole if you already have 100A service and just change the panel from fuses to breakers. All you do is pull the meter, remove all the secondary wires (to the house), then remove the mains, and swap boxes, and put it all back together. If the mains are too short for the new box, you just replace those wires from the meter to the breaker box. That's it....

Now, if you want more amperage, then you have to replace everything from the pole to the breaker box (possibly even the pole transformer). A much bigger job and many more costly parts.

Jw

[jw]

I only have 60A to my house. I'm on a farm that has 200A service, but the house only had a 60A fuse panel which I replaced with breakers. I just put a 60A breaker outside in the Main Box (on the main pole). Otherwise I would have had to spend a couple hundred more for new wires. 60A is all I need to the house. Now I have 100A to the garage and barn. I have a welder on that box which uses a 50A breaker. Yet I have never blown the main.

[keith]

Because it's the right thing to do. 100A is marginal these days. As long as he is going to the expense of changing the main he might just as well upgrade the service. As others have said, he'll likely be able to go to 150A with no changes to the service. An upgrade to 200A may be cheap, or even free.

That's all. Ten minutes and your done.

Not necessarily.

[Steve Barker]

a perfect example here folks. Listen to it. I have a rental that i completely rewired and used the old "main/range plus 4" as a disconnect. It has 60A fuses in it and it feeds a new 100a square-d panel. The tenants have the usual array of modern appliances including central air, electric stove, dryer, computers, big screen tv etc. Been three years now, and haven't blown one of those 60 a fuses. Power requirements are just NOT what people think they are.

[HeyBub]

Well, yeah, if the drop is not rated for 200 Amps.

What work are they doing "right there?"

In most jurisdictions (by land area), you can do the work yourself.

[Hell Toupee]

My house was built in the 50s and it had 60 amp service up until a few years ago. I have central air and a well pump and never had any issues. I finally got upgraded to 100 amp service after a lightning strike, since current code required a minimum 100 amp service. I have gas appliances, so I really don't have a current draw requiring a higher service.

What with house prices trending downward for the foreseeable future, I would only pay for a 200 amp upgrade if it cost just a little more money, or if I thought I'd be using it myself. Expensive home improvements generally don't pencil out in terms of resale value right now, and upgraded electrical service is not a sexy selling point. A lot of buyers will decide they can live without it, at least for the time being.

[chaniarts]

for you. for someone else? maybe not. i have 200a service and all gas appliances along with a solar system, and wish i had 300a and a larger box (it's full and has 40 slots). i have 2 pottery kilns at 50a each that i can't run at the same time, a large compressor for sandblasting, and i'd like to upgrade to a 100a kiln.

[Jack Hammer]

Depends on how much natural gas you use. If your stove is ng and your heating is ng and your drier is ng then 60 amps will do you. But in todays BIGGER is better society and for re-sale value, I would go with 200.

[jw]

I should add to this. With the cost of electricity, I sure as hell hope that I never draw 100A at once. I'm not very good at math, but using 100A for an hour would cost a fortune. I know that motors starting up and things like that draw excess loads for just a fraction of a minute, but still, 100A or even 60A at full usage is one hell of a load to be pulling at one time. I know my Arc Welder has a 50A at

220V breaker, which would tell me that it sucks a lot of power to require a 50A breaker, but at idle it dont use much, only when I'm actually welding. Now, if that welder was actually welding for hours, I'd go broke on the electric bill (actually home type welders will only weld for a few minutes at a time or they overheat and shut down for a few minutes, it's called their _____ (something) cycle.

[jw]

It's not just the box. If the OP was just changing the box, it would only be $30 difference. He can put in a 100A breaker box using the existing drop and cables from the head to the panel, because he already has 100A service. If he was doing this job himself, his only costs would be the box, breakers, and some connectors, clamps, and misc odds and ends.

However if he upgrades to 200A, the entire service entrance stack (conduit and cable) needs to be replaced, and likely the meter box too. Plus the service drop from the pole needs heavier wire, and this stuff is at least $3 a foot. These materials add up fast. Then consider he is having the work done, not a DIY. An electrician who charges $50 or more per hour can replace the box in 3 or 4 hours if it's just a replacement breaker panel. But if they have to change the service entrance and the power company has to change the drop, the labor alone will take a full day if not more. 8 hours @ $50 is $400 alone.