Update to: What could have done this to my vinyl siding?

Page 5 of 6  


My prediction of what you will find: absolutely nothing wrong.
I still think the cause is what I said the first time: solvent exposure, either in the form of overspray from staining the deck, or whatever was used to clean up the overspray.
Before opening up the wall, at least look at the back side of the siding you removed. If the problem *was* a heat source inside the wall, then the damage on the back side should be at least as bad as the damage on the face. OTOH, if there is no (or only slight) discoloration visible on the back side, that would be the strongest possible indication that the source of the damage was on the outside of the house -- with solvent exposure being IMO the most likely culprit.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug Miller wrote:

Very dangerous advice. Heat coming through the sheathing could very easily build to the level required to soften and deform the vinyl siding without discoloring the back side. Open the sheathing and see what's behind. Heck, even cut a 2" hole with a hole saw to look through and inspect the removed plug.
Pete C.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Oh, come on. Let's hear your explanation of that: how "heat coming through the sheathing" to damage the siding will discolor the side *away* from the heat source without discoloring the side *nearer* the heat source. That's complete nonsense.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug Miller wrote:

You're quite the moron aren't you? You are the only one who has ever suggested that there would be discoloration on the vinyl siding. Vinyl siding will soften to the point of sagging from gravity well before it will discolor. The photos the OP posted clearly do not show any discoloration on the siding either.
Pete C.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Moron? Me? No, actually, Pete, I think that would be *you* here. The photos the OP posted VERY CLEARLY show substantial discoloration of the siding. Here's the link that was in the original post:
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squisher/IMG_6627.JPG
Now go look at that for the FIRST time, Pete, since it's blindingly obvious you've never seen it before. See the discoloration, MORON?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug Miller wrote:

I've looked at it several times and it's abundantly clear that there is no discoloration of the siding, only a change in the shadows and the reflection angle due to the deformation. Perhaps if you clean the crud of your monitor and or get some glasses you'll be able to see this fact.
Pete C.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

"Abundantly clear" only to someone who has already made up his mind to refuse to see any evidence that contradicts his assumptions. (Perhaps you'll recognize yourself.)
To anyone else, the discoloration is plainly obvious. Your continued denial that any discoloration exists is astonishing.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug Miller wrote:

Your have given a clear example of overlooking other possibilities and fixating on your conclusion. The discoloration was not visible on an LCD monitor, it is on a CRT monitor.
That still doesn't change the conclusion since all the other evidence points to an internal heat source, and absent evidence there is no comparable discoloration on the back side of the siding there is nothing to contradict the other evidence.
Pete C.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Me? No. Just like with the "moron" comment, that would be *you*, Pete, not me. You overlooked the possibility that your LCD monitor prevented you from seeing the discoloration because you were fixated on your conclusion of an internal heat source. And because this conclusion is contradicted by *exterior* discoloration, you denied that any such discoloration existed, and even went so far as to impugn my intellectual capacities simply because I am able to see that which you refused to see. That's an example of overlooking other possibilities and fixating on a conclusion, to be sure -- but not on *my* part.

The discoloration that you so heatedly denied ever existed. The discoloration that I was a "moron" for seeing. The discoloration that everyone could see except you. (Who's the moron?)

There is *no* evidence *at* *all* pointing to an internal heat source, and considerable evidence pointing to exterior solvent exposure or exterior heat.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug Miller wrote:

The conclusion of an internal heat source is in no way contradicted by evidence if discoloration on the external surface of the vinyl siding. If and only if we had evidence that the reverse side of that siding did not have comparable discoloration would there be anything to sway things against an internal heat source. Even so it would not be conclusive since the atmosphere between the siding and the Tyvek is different from the outside surface exposed to free air and that could affect discoloration. The other evidence still points to an internal heat source.

You if you think that the discoloration on the outside is somehow conclusive proof of an external heat source. We don't at this point have an answer from the OP on whether the back side of the siding showed comparable discoloration, and we do have a number of other pieces of evidence that point away from an external heat source.

Look again, closely and with an open mind. You're the one fixated on an external source. I've looked at that possibility and have not found any likely external source that would cause the damage seen in the photo. The position of the damage extending only about 12" in front of the railing and continuing behind the railing points strongly against pretty much any likely external heat source, including a grill, hibachi, jar of iced tea, decorative sun catcher, etc. The fact that the Tyvek was heated to the point that holes formed in it while the siding only sagged also points away from an external source.
Pete C.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I have never maintained that the discoloration is due to a heat source of any kind, and only a moron would think that I have. I've been quite clear and consistent in stating my belief that it's due to the stain that the OP already admitted to having oversprayed on the siding, and/or the solvent that the OP has already stated he used to clean it up.

We do indeed agree on that: a number of other pieces that point away from an external heat source. I think they point toward external solvent exposure.

You're not red-green colorblind, by any chance, are you? If not, then you haven't looked very carefully. The OP already said he had an overspray when staining the deck, and used a solvent to wipe it off. Curiously, the discoloration on the siding is very similar to the color of stain visible on the deck.

I agree. That's entirely consistent with solvent exposure, as I have maintained all along. It's clear, though, from the minimal damage sustained by the Tyvek and the sheathing, that the source was external, not internal.

ASSUMPTION!! Where is your evidence that the Tyvek was heated *at*all*??

Hardly that. Quite the contrary, actually -- the fact that the siding is visibly discolored and deformed, while the Tyvek is only slightly damaged, points strongly *toward* an external source.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I'm still holding out an open mind on it. I don't think it's even that conclusive. Nor am I sure that I fully accept the OP's knowledge and recollection of every possibility.
Secondly, Tyvek != vinyl. The vinyl may show less damage than the tyvek even if there was an external heat source. The tyvek may have a lower melt point than vinyl, will likely shrink (causing tension) when heated, and it's so thin to begin with, it'll blow holes much more quickly than the vinyl would.
Given the information we have to date, I still think he needs to pull some sheathing off. The tyvek melt pattern is too suggestive of a hot wire for my comfort.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You're just too fucking stupid to see it. Everyone else can.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"T. Rex" wrote:

Apparently you're the stupid one if you think that.
Pete C.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You're the only one that can't see it, dumbass.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I assume this means I'll be seeing an apology from you sometime soon?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug Miller wrote:

No, since you attacked my analysis of the evidence well before there was any discussion of discoloration.
My analysis still stands as well since absent any evidence that there is not comparable discoloration on the back of the siding, all the other evidence still points solidly to an internal heat source.
Other evidence:
* Greater damage to the Tyvek. * Damage pattern not consistent with radiant heat from a grill placed too close. * Damage continuing behind the railing also not consistent with radiant heat from a grill. * Electrical boxes surrounding the damage location indicating numerous wires in that wall area. * Extra nails seen in the damage area and indeed very close to a known electrical box location.
Pete C.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I disagreed with your analysis of the evidence precisely *because* of the discoloration PLAINLY visible on the outside.

You have *no* evidence pointing, solidly or otherwise, to an internal heat source.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug Miller wrote:

I gotta' go w/ PeteC on this mostly...the OP said the solvent/deck was done in '06 and this damage didn't show up until within the last two weeks -- that's pretty long incubation time for a solvent to act.
Definitely OP should find out what's going on inside the wall if only to confirm conclusively it was all a surface damage on the outside...
If we're betting/guessing, I'm still on the side of somebody pushed the still hot grill over there sometime... :)
--


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Looks like discoloration to me. More than that, looks like the height and shape of a gas grill. Looks like the heat rose from the grill and went to the left. It spread out as it rose. Move that grill up against the fence and see how well the outline fits. Oh right, too late for that, the siding is gone.
Besides that, there's no need for name calling.

From what I've seen, I wouldn't.

Yep.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.