Update on cleaning 3 more toilets of brown streaks using HCl (pool acid)

Just as I now always look at my friends' garage doors to see what they need help fixing, now I'm constantly looking for brown stains in my friends' toilets. :)

Here's one I found at one friend's house:

formatting link

And, here's another, at a different house:

formatting link

There were many new lessons learned though, mostly from being way too casual around the acid and therefore making a few mistakes by not being cautious enough.

For example, my hands are killing me, because I cupped the acid back and forth to cover the stains in an attempt to speed up the process:

formatting link

Another lesson learned is to remove the baggie over the filler tube when you start refilling the toilet! I left the baggie on to get the phone, and when I came back, acid was all over the stone floor (making it slippery to the touch!).

formatting link

Another lesson learned is that you can peel back the plastic wrap over the bowl to scrub the stains to move the process along quicker - but - you'll get one hell of a few good coughing fits out of being that close to the open bowl of acid. My chest is still hurting - like when you have bronchitis:

formatting link

Yet another lesson learned is that some people are really picky when it comes to chemicals. This shot is at a friend's house, where I didn't bother with the funnel and just poured the acid directly down the tube. Of course, a lot went into the bowl - which smoked and fumed. Hours later, my friend swore she could still smell the acid (although I don't believe her):

formatting link

Another lesson learned was that the plastic wrap actually works BETTER than does the rubber banded sandwich bag, especially when you remove it to pour more acid. The plastic wrap throws away more easily without keeping acid in all the folds:

formatting link

Another good lesson was to not get cavalier about the acid. Here you see me pouring it directly on the scrub brush in the bowl. Problem was that droplets of acid started burning my bare skin within minutes - even though they didn't hurt at first.

formatting link

In summary, the biggest thing I learned is that the damage from the acid doesn't hurt too badly at first - but it lingers on.

Also, I learned you can clean the bowl directly, but, you'll get a few whiffs in your lung - which you'll know when you get 'em as you'll start coughing away immediately.

The splashes on the bare skin only tingle and burn at first, but later little blisters will develop on your fingers. No big deal - but it would have been better had I taken the stuff more seriously.

Anyway, hope others benefit from the experience outlined here in pictures. If you have questions, ask away.

Reply to
Danny D.
Loading thread data ...

clipped

Did you read the label before use? Hell, anyone who wants to use m.a. indoors should try it out on some concrete, outdoors, first.

Reply to
Norminn

I see HCl azeotrope is 20%. This means that with more concentrated acid there would be much more propensity to fume giving off pure HCl fumes which are highly irritating to skin and respiratory tract. The HCl sold to clean toilets is about 15% and does not have this problem. If someone wants to save money by buying muriatic acid, they should cut it 50/50 with water before storage and use.

I once made the mistake of storing a closed bottle of muriatic acid in a metal cabinet. Even while closed, enough fumes got out of the plastic bottle to cause severe rusting of the cabinet.

Reply to
Frank

After reading your posts, I have come to a conclusion...YOU ARE AN IDIOT. Anyone who has had ANY education would not put their hands in strong acid. Anyone who would inhale the fumes of a strong acid IS AN IDIOT. Anyone who would allow you to clean their toilet and screw up their toilet, bathroom and decor IS AN IDIOT.

A milder acid such as OXALIC ACID or FORMIC ACID would clean up those iron and calcium stains just as well without the extreme danger. Caution would still need to be exercised but the aforementioned acids are easier to work with.

====

Reply to
Roy

I've used this 28% (note that it's double the normal strength) muriatic acid for a while, so, yes, I'm familiar with the bubbling and whitening that occurs when it spills on concrete.

I also washed my entire pool with the stuff, so, I'm very familiar with getting the fumes in my lungs, eyes, and splashing my skin.

Sometimes we all fall into the trap of getting too comfortable with dangerous chemicals - and I am no exception.

Reply to
Danny D.

You had to "learn" not to put your skin into HCl?

I think I understand why there are so many warning labels now....

Jon

Reply to
Jon Danniken

I had to look up "azeotrope":

formatting link

I'm not sure I understood, but I think your point was that the fumes of HCl are basically at the same strength as the acid itself.

I can tell you for a fact that I got a few good gulps of the stuff, and you can feel it in your chest - as your body instinctively closes up and doesn't let you even get a full breath - so you make little short ones as you need air.

The stuff we buy in the pool stores is usually either 28% or 14% by volume.

I wonder what percentage would be a good percentage to dilute down to for use for toilets?

Googling, I see this special "thickened" HCl prep at 9%

formatting link

But this prep seems pretty high in percentage at 23%: (presumably by volume):

formatting link

Reply to
Danny D.

Indeed. That was my point. Don't do as I did, or you will also have a heavy chest and itchy fingers.

BTW, I found this article which backs up your theory of where the BROWN color comes from:

formatting link

Reply to
Danny D.

You can burn the skin of your hands rather miserably and get over it quickly....do the same thing to your bronchi/lungs and you may not get over it. I would not use the s--- indoors, for anything, and I have stains in my toilet bowl :o) My potty is old gold color, blue stain around the water line of the bowl. I have used green 3M scrubbers (fairly gently) to get deposits out of t.b. that regular bowl cleaner or CLR did not remove.

Reply to
Norminn

:)

It's not too bad at first - but then it starts itching more much later.

It hurts more in the beginning - then it just becomes a dull ache, sort of what it's like when you get over the flu.

Applying baking soda pretty much prevented the stone from being visibly damaged.

Now you tell us! Where were you in the scores of prior conversations? :)

Reply to
Danny D.

I should note that my wrists and hand swelled up like a balloon, so, again, the lesson is never touch the acid without gloves - and even then - avoid touching it if you can.

No need to be afraid; just don't be cavalier.

Reply to
Danny D.

It really sounds like you need to be far more afraid than you have been. Wow! You're a walking Darwin award.

Reply to
krw

A commercial product called IRON-OUT will work fine as well. The company puts out a number of other products as well. All of our grocery stores up here carry this product and most hardware stores as well. Just Google for it. I did mention that earlier in the month.

I have nothing against you personally, but I hate to see people taking avoidable risks with their health. Lung damage is not a minor thing.

Reply to
Roy

What I like about lining up your ducks & following the rules, is the task works. What I love about breaking the rules, is you learn HOW that task really works!

Hence, there are more lessons learned when things go wrong than when they go right.

Reply to
Danny D.

Hmm... Oren is wholly right that the brown stuff isn't usually rust (and certainly was not in my case). It's what he delicately calls "kooties" ensconced within layers of limey deposits, such that you can turn them white with bleach, but you need acid to remove the layers under and above - which removes the kooties in the process.

BRAND:

formatting link

MSDS:

formatting link
formatting link

Hmm... I wonder if the ORDER of the chemicals in the MSDS tells us something? ~5% Sodium carbonate (3-7%) ~25% Sodium hydrosulfite (15-40%) ~25% Sodium metabisulfite (15-40%) ~2.5% Citric acid (1-5%) ~1% Sodium sulfite (0.5-1.5%) ~0.5% Sodium bisulfite (0.-1%)

Given what Oren and I believe to be the root cause of the brown stuff, I don't think sodium salts are going to fix the problem at all.

Certainly we know, from our past direct experiments, that Phosphoric acid won't do the trick - and that dissolves rust directly.

I have nothing against anyone. I'm here for the learning. I thought your post was funny - and - I fully understood where you were coming from. Had I "ignorantly" done all that I did, I'd be an MC for the Darwin award ceremony; but I actually knew the rules that I was breaking - and I was prepared to see what happened.

Just like I broke the rule to "never touch a torsion spring" and the age-old rule "never run with scissors" (and a few thousand more that little boys are subject to day in and day out by their moms), I knew what I was doing in so much as I knew other people would be afraid to do what I did.

But I also made pipe bombs as a kid; rode a bicycle without a helmet; went hiking without telling my parents where I was going (they didn't care and I didn't know); climbed any fence that said "keep out"; jumped off the swing at the highest point; dove into the water from local bridges & swam even though the reservoir said "no swimming"; etc.

Plus, if I can handle Bob K., I certainly can handle anything anyone else can dish out and still keep my cheerful rosy attitude.

I like people; I like learning from people; I like learning things myself after learning from people; and then I like to pass it on to pay it forward. Good or bad, I pass it on, so others benefit, as always. I especially like folks like Oren, krw, & trader4; but many other wonderful people flesh out the team such as dadiOH, Nate, SMS, Frank, notbob, Dufas, Stormin, Vic, Ashton, Derby, dpb, Smitty, Tony, Meanie, Douglas, etc.

Reply to
Danny D.

I do agree. Next time I'll wear gloves. :)

Of course, this is what my regular work gloves looks like after only a short period of time using them outside ...

formatting link

... so if you know of better wearing (longer-lasting) thick leather gloves than welding gloves, let me know.

Reply to
Danny D.

I guess its okay to use it as long as you follow instructions. I usually just pour a little in the toilet bowl and cover it for 30 minutes. When I come back, the brown stains are gone and all I do is pour lysol, brush a little and t.b. is as good as new.

Reply to
ehernandez

I don't think you should be messing with acid. Scooping it with bare hands? Jeez...

Here's another tip: never pour water into the acid.

Reply to
dadiOH

Let's see...

You found out that acid attacks skin.

Now you want to protect your hands by wearing gloves made of skin. Absorbent skin at that.

Forget that you ever heard of acid.

Reply to
dadiOH

Great quote!

Reply to
Robert Macy

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.