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Rent Pacific Heights
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:::sigh::: My point was, I speak from experience. I was trying to help you.

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I am reminded of the time that the US Army was trying to get Noriega out of the Vatican Embassy - They played very loud rock music day and night until he couldn't take it anymore and surrendered. If there is something that you can do that causes noise, but can be claimed to be normal household activities, he may get fed up and leave.

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that would be assualt, and if the bats are used to hit him, battery, nevertheless, at a minimum assault, good thing your plonked
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You really are as dumb as you look, aren't you?
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I know it's tempting to beat the living shit out of the little freeloader, but if you think you're mad now, wait until a judge orders you to recompense him for his belongings, "pain and suffering," etc.
You can do no wrong by filing a formal eviction. It doesn't cost much and covers your ass. ASSUME he has tenant's rights, because even though laws vary from state to state, he does have rights - rights you gave him. The fact that he doesn't pay and broke the verbal contract is of no consequence at this juncture; you still have to do a legal eviction, just as you would if you had a written contract.
Contracts don't mean a thing once you've provided a space for another human to reside. As such, it has to be inhabitable. So don't cut off his electricity or water, much as you want to (and in my opinion, have a right to!). Don't dispose of ANY of his belongings. Go the formal route. In the long run it will benefit YOU. Next time don't let anyone live in your property without a legally binding contract, background check, and deposit/first month's rent up front. I speak from experience; I was a landlord for 15 years.
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Dee wrote:

This thread is scarey!
We usually put up visiting professionals we've never met about once a year or so when the Rotary Club I belong to participates in a "Group Study Exchange" with a Rotary club in a different part of the world. We house them in our now unused nanny suite for a week. All of those Rotary visitors have been great guests, and probably have been pretty thoroughly screened by the club sponsoring them, so chances of one of them turning into a "Kathy's nightmare" are slim, but it's something to think about....
If contracts don't mean anything, how do these things work in hotels? Can a deadbeat with more debts than assets pay for one night in a hotel room and then refuse to vacate it until the hotel goes through all those proper legal steps?
Or are hotels covered by a different section of the law?
My curious mind wants to know.....
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
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<< If contracts don't mean anything, how do these things work in hotels? >>
Hotel/motel arrangements are, by nature, short-term. With residency, oral contracts can carry a lot of weight in a court of law. Both parties entered into an agreement. A lot of it is his word against her word, but there are facts that are indisputable: She took money from him and gave him a key to the residence. And that is a contract. Don't get me wrong, it sucks that he's doing this. Which is why I wouldn't want to see her get burned any more than she already is.
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In alt.home.repair on Wed, 26 Jan 2005 18:24:55 GMT "Dee"

Well put. I wish I'd said that. :)

Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.
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I don't know all the legal ramifications, but I've read stores in the paper. People would be put up in a room by either state welfare organization or charitable organizations for a specific time. Then they would refuse to move out after that time. It then took a court order to get them evicted. I don't know if the typical overnight guest would have those "protections" or not I'm sure much of this varies by state also.
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Yep!
The innkeepers of America have a more powerful lobby than the Landlords do.
Defrauding an innkeeper is a crime in all the states I have been in. Defrauding a landlord is a tenant's right!
Here if you buy something at a store and write a bad check over $100 it is a felony. The DA collects the money and prosecutes the case for the store. Pay your landlord with a bad check and it is not even a crime. You can only evict the sucker.
Here if you drive off from the gas station without paying you can lose your license and serve time. Move out without paying your landlord. That's your right. He can sue you if he can find you. Sue a hundred of them you might collect on one of them when they want to buy a car someday.
Colbyt
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Yes, well a couple of things you guys overlooked.
She admits recieving a letter and then says she did not recieve it.
She recieved 500 for 3 month utilities and has fraudulently tried to destroy the payment connection to the family by having a friend cash the money order. GUILTY of IRS income fraud and , FRAUD on the TENNANT by hiding his payment. Now that only a Scum Bag would do...
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In alt.home.repair on Wed, 26 Jan 2005 18:56:16 -0600 snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (m Ransley) posted:

You're misusing the word fraud.
And there is no need to report contributinos to one's utility costs unless one is deducting his gas, electricity or phone from his gross income, for the sake of calculating taxes. I doubt Kathy is.
Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.
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In alt.home.repair on Wed, 26 Jan 2005 19:24:39 -0500 "Colbyt"

I'm pretty sure that is becaus there have been a lot of rotten landlords who have ruined it for the good landlords, who are the overwhelming majority of them.

I think everywhere in the country if you write a check knowing it is a closed acount or there isn't enough money in the account to cover it, it is a crime.
Maybe you're saying in practice they don't prosecute it.
It is not a crime anywhere if the check is dated tomorrow or later. (Because I think, one could have planned to put in the money to cover it and then not been able to. Maybe for other reasons too. But that is a reason a person might want to refuse a check which is not dated today. I"m not sure about checks that are dated yesterday or earlier.)

Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.
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you can call your local police department and usually get some pretty good free advise. Neighbor evicted a non paying tenant by offering her a months rent in cash if she'd leave within a few days. She took the cash and instantly left & of course he instantly rented it to another non payer.

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In alt.home.repair on Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:47:06 GMT "bumtracks"

A lot of police know the law in general, but most don't know all the details, and some don't even know the basics. One might "usually" get good advice, but the problem is knowing whether this is one of the times they give good advice, or one they give bad advice.
Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.
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Most real estate contracts have to be in writing so I doubt he has any rights. Furthermore a contract to be binding requires consideration which means both sides need to give something of value. He hasn't so I doubt he could argue a verbal contract even if verbal rental agreements are enforcable in your state which is doubtful. Throw him out.

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Art,
A lease is not a "real estate" contract. Leases do not have to be in writing in many locales. Often month to month leases are verbal. It sounds as if this fellow moved in and paid for his room by running errands initially. That he is now a deadbeat does not mean that he is not a tenant. The OP should assume that he is a tenant and do whatever the local customs require to evict him. On a practical note it sounds as if the tenant does not have any money (and so is not worth suing) and the landlord does not have a security deposit so it would be best to try to ease him out.
Dave M.
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In alt.home.repair on Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:17:29 GMT "Art"

That's the Parole Evidence rule, if you want to hunt for it on the web, and that's for the purchase of real estate, not the rental.
There are millions of leases in America that are only verbal, and they are still enforceable.

Yes, he has. You are mixed up about what is consideration. Some contracts are a promise for an act**, but most are a promise for a promise. Kathy promised to let him stay there (implied: until 30 days after she told him he can't.) and this guy promised to pay a share of the utilities and to do chores, iirc. That's mutual consideration and there is a contract.
The fact that he hasn't fulfilled his promises doesn't mean there was no contract, or that this is now no contract.
**An example of a unilateral contract, a promise for an act, is a Reward poster. "200 dollar reward for the return of lost dog, Skipper. Brown and white cocker spaniel." When a person performs the specified act, returns the dog, the person putting up the reward poster has to fulfill his promise, and give him the 200 dollars. (I'm sure there's an exception in the law if you can prove he was the one who stole the dog.)

You have some recollection of the law, but not enough . Please don't give legal advice.

Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.
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Kathy, This newsgroup is a dangerous place to try to get advise, since just about all but one poster is completely wrong. If you follow the kick him out, move his stuff, call the cops advise, he will certainly have a legal claim against you, and he will win, despite whatever the posters here say. I don't know your state, but he likely has what has been referred to here as "renters rights" whether he has paid you any rent or signed a contract, or not. You have to go through an unlawful detainer (eviction) action to legally get him out. Don't worry, it's inexpensive. Call your local bar association and they can put you in touch of a landlord assistance group or someone who can do it pro bono if you can't afford an attorney. To handle it any other way is not only wrong, but illegal. Also do a search on misc.legal newsgroup for "unlawful detainer." You will get more info than you need.
I am a lawyer, but not your lawyer and this post is not intended as legal advise and does not create an attorney/client relationship. Good luck, David
Kathy wrote:

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