Under Slab Plumbing

Hi There,
I'm in the process of building a new home and have a question regarding the plumbing under the slab.
After the builder poured the foundation and started framing I noticed 1/2 of the plumbing didn't line up. I ask the general contractor about this. He said it is a normal accordance and it happens about 90% of the time. Is this really the case? He said they will re-route all the plumbing and it will be fine. I just don't like the idea of someone coming back in with a jackhammer all over the foundation. Can this hurt the integrity of the foundation and plumbing?
Thanks, John
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possible editing):

I guess it all depends upon how far off it really is. If you mean <inch, I guess it does, but anything more is just sloppy work. Depending upon how much is jackhammered or cut (usually better) it shouldn't hurt the foundation, but it can hurt the plumbing.
FWIW, my home has about a 4000 sq ft footprint, slab on ground over insulation, with radiant heat in part and none of it was misaligned. I've been involved with several homes using slabs and never had a misalignment, but in one a pipe was forgotten, but added overhead later.
--
Larry
Email to rapp at lmr dot com
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wrote (with

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Thanks for the reply Larry,
To be more specific: My slab has a 3132 sq.ft footprint
The washing machine stub is in the master closet, off about 2 feet The master sink stub is in the hallway, off around 3 feet The refrigerator stub is in the pantry, off about 3 feet The kitchen sink stub,off about 2 feet Guest bathroom toilet drain, off about 1 foot
This is a new home builder that is doing this. I have been to a couple of other homes under contruction and have seen other plumbing re-routes. Like 1 or 2 at the most. My house has a lot more :(
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wrote (with

that's a really crappy job by the person doing the pipe installation, unless there were changes done to the structure plan but not carried through to the plumbing plan, which is pretty unlikely.
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Seems just plain sloppy to me. Its not hard to measure these things. For a stub in the middle of the slab, measuring over a 20 or 30 foot distance, combined with the jossling of the cement pour, being off by an inch or two seems pretty reasonable. For stubs near the edge (probably the bathroom toilet and kitchen sink, for example), an inch or less seems easy. But 3 feet? Most plumbers should be able to eyeball to within 3 feet without even measuring. Anything more is sloppy, or (on the occational pipe) just a simple and forgiveable mistake.
-Kevin
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Will the rework cause any degradation of the foundation or plumbing?
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depending upon how good your termite barrier is, it would provide additional ingress openings for them. it would also make dealing with additional cracks for tiling necessary, and if there was substantial digging under the slab to get to the pipes in question, the patches in the slab could crack off and sink, causing the floor covering above it to also sink or crack, depending upon what that was.
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Your floor slab is not your foundation. That's under the bearing walls. If the plumbing is run under the footings, I'd be really concerned, unless you're on exposed ridge.
Can't say about the plumbing. Depends on what they do to get at it, and what it's made of. You might make mention of the fact that you'd like a second set of eyeballs to go over it before closing it up.
Got a camera ready?
HTH, J
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: Your floor slab is not your foundation. That's under the bearing : walls. If the plumbing is run under the footings, I'd be really : concerned, unless you're on exposed ridge. : : Can't say about the plumbing. Depends on what they do to get at it, and : what it's made of. You might make mention of the fact that you'd like a : second set of eyeballs to go over it before closing it up. : : Got a camera ready? : : HTH, : J :
to the OP:
Any chance there is a large distance between the open ends of the pipes and that something else is going to go into that area? As in gates, sorters, joiners, temp controllers, pressure controllers, things like that? That's such a large offset that it almost sounds intentional. But, if he says it's "normal", like you said, IMO something's rotten and it's not in the dirt underneat the concrete.
That camera idea's a very good one. Get pics from a couple of different angles of each misalignment, and carefully note the location in writing right on the pic. Let the builder know you did it. I'm no expert but I think I'd also insist on having the contract modified to specifically incluse any damage that might arise over time due to this issue so that it cannot be attibuted to "an act of God" or some such thing down the road. If he's a good businessman, he'll likely give you as much of what you're asking for as he feels reasonable. That will tell you a lot.
Actually, I think the best thing you might do would be to get those pics and then see if you can't get an inspector or city engineer, whatever, to come out and look it over. They may or may not have some interesting comments, but either way it's going to help settle things a lot. If you can afford it and they city/town whatever doesn't have one, you might even consider hiring a structural engineer to take a look at it. Don't stop the contractor from working or you'll get into contractual problems. But don't make any secret that you're questioning the misalingnments either; he should have nothing to hide. In fact, maybe it was one of his subcontractors at fault, if there is a fault, and he might be more helpful than you think. Or not.
I assume you measured horizontal misalignments. Are there also vertical misalignments? You might need a level to figure that out.
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YES !!!!!!
Either change the house plans, or rip up everything after suing them, and start over. Personally, I'd run the supply pipes ABOVE the foundation. Under slab plumbing is asking for trouble. But you can not move the drain pipes without damage.
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wrote (with

1/2
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Are the instructions in Spanish? 2 feet just flat wrong anyone with a tape measure that can read should be better than that.
Sure hope your builder is not KB. Time to check your contract.
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If it's off that much, someone is really doing crappy work, and I'd get a lawyer before anymore work is done. You need to sue someone.
You'll probably have to change the plans of the house to match the pipes, or you will have a brand new screwed up floor AND plumbing.
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Sounds like a Toll Brothers or Pulte home. LOL
wrote (with

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Yep :(
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D & P wrote:

If it were me I would have had the main contractor halt construction while we discussed who was paying for the slab to be removed and done correctly.
For the plumbing to be off the amount stated is just really bad work.
Any rework of the concrete is going to cause potential problems as the house settles.
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: : D & P wrote: : > Hi There, : > : > I'm in the process of building a new home and have a question regarding the : > plumbing under the slab. : > : > After the builder poured the foundation and started framing I noticed 1/2 of : > the plumbing didn't line up. I ask the general contractor about this. He : > said it is a normal accordance and it happens about 90% of the time. Is this : > really the case? He said they will re-route all the plumbing and it will be : > fine. I just don't like the idea of someone coming back in with a jackhammer : > all over the foundation. Can this hurt the integrity of the foundation and : > plumbing? : > : > Thanks, : > John : : If it were me I would have had the main contractor halt construction : while we discussed who was paying for the slab to be removed and done : correctly. : : For the plumbing to be off the amount stated is just really bad work. : : Any rework of the concrete is going to cause potential problems as the : house settles. :
I don't know about stopping construction: I'd let the contractor make that decision to avoid conttractual problems, depending on how it's written.
That's a danged good point on who pays for it though! Certainly not the homeowner, I'd say. Might be worth keeping a record of how many men doing what on which days while that's going on, and getting a detailed labor record when the job's done: Most projects are on computers so it's not hard to get such a record, and if it's not, well, it should still be available from their pay records; and it better match up to your figures, too.
Try hard not to pay for HIS mistakes. Also, don't forget about subcontractors if he's using them - it might not be "his" fault, but it's certainly "his" responsibility.
HTH,
Pop
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