unconventional stovepipe run to save more heat?

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>You are free to work to change the code. You are not free to tell >people to ignore code and compromise the safety of their homes...
So file a complaint with the Internet Speech Police.
Nick is a great resource for learning basic concepts and for bringing to Usenet, many excellent under-publicized efficient schemes. We also can praise the fact that he doesn't claim authorship of other people's ideas.
As in all of life, it's buyer beware about the details.
When all is said and done, Nick never tries to sell any bad products. Which puts him a step ahead of a significant fraction of the commercial marketplace.
Nick doesn't try to present connect-the-dot solutions. In point of fact, his presentations are often VERY obscure and require a lot of study.
So there isn't really any danger that Joe Sixpack is gonna suffocate his own family with CO2 emissions based on anything Nick has ever written.
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Carbon monoxide is more of a danger, but very remote, IMO, given 2 CO detectors. One of my 2 Nighthawks has battery backup.
Nick
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Are by chance Nicks significant other that you love him so much?
Dances wrote: When all is said and done, Nick never tries to sell any bad products. Which puts him a step ahead of a significant fraction of the commercial
marketplace.
The humidex exhaust fan is a bad idea that nick promotes along with the high resistance air filters. Since he doesn't actually work on any of this stuff in actual installations, he is selling products that he does not know the effects of. It is nice that he is an electrical engineer. Maybe he should stick with wires. Being able to do theory does not mean he has any practical knowledge. Yes, he sometimes has interesting ideas, but to push them the way he does makes no sense when they could often be dangerous to implement.
stretch
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No. Unlike Smart Vents, Humidex is overpriced and needs better controls. I have no business relationship with either company.
Nick
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Actually, I am surprised you have gotten out of that air tight locked shower you were designing...LOL

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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

When the first chimney fire strikes, you'll have a lovely time. This sort of foolishness is a bad way to "save money" when all the costs are included. Put the woodstove in with a nice normal stovepipe and make sure it passes inspection (which this sort of crap won't).
Inspections of this sort are about "not burning down your rather expensive house" and "not gassing your family to death", rather than "trying to prevent you from squeezing 25 cents worth of heat out of your woodpile", but believe what you like. If you read MEN without a large block of salt handy (a grain just won't do it) you may teach yourself some expensive lessons you're not ready to learn any other way...
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by


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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

That has got to be one of the stupidist ideas I've seen TMEN show, and they've shown a lot of stupid ideas.
The convolutions are ridiculous. Back when huge grange halls were heated with little more than a tiny pot-belly stove, the stove sometimes had a straight pipe leading to a T, which then led to two 90 degree elbows, which led to two vertical pipes, which led to two more elbows and another T, merging into a single pipe going through the roof or wall. Note that these scavangers were designed for use with coal, which provides more heat and less creosote. In any event, that double stack is a tried and workable design. Convolutions that attempt to make hot smoke go down may be fine for hippie hookahs, but they don't work in home heating, especially if you are trying to start the stove on a mild day where there isn't a strong darft.
The design that TMEN shows is guaranteed to be a PITA. Additionally, even if it worked properly, you would get a quick blast furnace type of heat every time you fired up the stove. That gets old fast, usually after about the third firing of the stove.
The other part of the article (the stove itself) is equally stupid. It doesn't address that refractory cement can crack, especially if struck. Without at least an embedded chicken wire or hardwood mesh, I wouldn't trust such a stove to not fall apart at precisely the wrong time.
The small amount of fuel the stove can accept means that it requires constant feeding, probably on the order of once an hour or even once every twenty minutes on a cold windy night in an older house. There are only so many BTUs in a pound of wood, no matter how you cut (or burn) it.
The design doesn't even qualify as a nice idea poorly executed. The fireplace/stoves that they attempted to emulate had one major plus, lots of thermal mass. They removed the thermal mass and kept the bad parts of the design.
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (Harry Chickpea) wrote:

Uhh, make that hardware cloth and not hardwood. :-)
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Harry Chickpea wrote:

I disagree. You can make the flue gas go down and back up, as I posted before you just have to give it some quick heat to establish a good draft while you light the fire. Old furnaces with a heat exchanger that took the flue gas from the top of the furnace and sent it to the chimney down low were common, I've got one in the basement and it works very well. Three feet from the back of the appliance the pipe is about 200F, pretty good efficiency..
The method of extracting more heat from the pipe that you mention was a common one in the old days, but it requires more vertical room between the top of the stove and the ceiling than many houses have today to work well.
I fully agree with your opinion of the MEN stove, a massive waste of time and resources.
John

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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

what is the purpose of the convoluted run? If it is just to increase the length of pipe in the room to provide more heat, how about just adding fins to the pipe?
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wrote:

Fins would work better, but what do you use for the fins? I've never seen them sold and it may be a hassle to cut them from sheet aluminum.
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Copper flashing. Hook up some wires and run some LEDs from the resulting thermocouple, while you're at it. not enough to be useful, but interesting anyway.
You should also look into piping in combustion air, while you're at it, so you don't have throw heated air from the room up the chimney.
--Goedjn

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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Perhaps beer cans could be used as a source of aluminum. A little work with a tin snips should suffice.
Anthony
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Anthony Matonak wrote:

It's difficult to cut straight after nine or ten empty cans...
mike
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wrote:

alu fins on a steel(?) flue?? how about broad, thin flat-bar tacked on one edge, parallel to the run...
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They use aluminum on copper baseboard. Very good heat transver
how about broad, thin flat-bar tacked on one

Could work. I was thinking of the typical fins on baseboard, but no reason they could not be as you describe. Easier to fabricate and install.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Err, any machine shop with a guillotine and sheet bender should be able to convert a sheet of aluminium or gal(?) or steel (?) to strips with a 90 corner.
The question is whether to punch and drill the rivet holes before or after. Blind rivets of course, or Tek screws if you like the look.
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Neither. Extend the bases past the fins, and hold them on with giant hose-clamps.
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The real question is the cost. ; Of course a metal shop can fabricate them, but is the cost going to be something the average homeowner can easily afford?
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