OK, I have to say, I don't really know what was going on.
I was on my way to work and saw a "roofing crew" atop a house and noticed that they had Tyvek spread out all over the roof. They also had bundles of shingles waiting.
I ASSUME they were going to put the shingles over the Tyvek.
Of course, I grew up with the 15/30 pound felt option.
Anyone know if this is the future. I have a shed I will probably have to roof in a few years....
Some shingles are meant to be put up without felt....voids the warranty if you use it. Tyvek may have been used instead of a tarp.
Jimmie
Felt is OK under tab shingles. However felt will deteriorate in high heat areas if used under tile roofing and metal roofing. Due to heat buildup. This is happening in my area under tile. We only have a few days of 100 degree weather a year. ww
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That is a product meant to meet the new Florida code that requires a secondary membrane under shingles, which tend to become flying solid waste in a storm.
What exactly are these shingles that prohibit an underlayment?
Every asphalt and fiberglass shingle manufacturer that I've run across
- maybe about half a dozen of the most common shingle manufacturers - requires an underlayment or the warranty is voided. Just the opposite of what you're saying. These include Tamko, Certainteed, GAF, Elk, Owens Corning, IKO, Atlas, etc.
Atlas has this to say about underlayments: "Atlas considers shingles to be the final layer of a well designed roofing system. That being said, what goes under your shingles is just as important as the shingles themselves, if not more."
The International Residential Code, upon which most state codes are based, requires underlayment and is quite specific about the application. As in most such situations, the code may default to the manufacturer's installation instructions, which brings me back to asking who makes these shingles that have a warranty that prohibits an underlayment?
R
They have to use an approved membrane material in Florida (and felt ain't it). Otherwise they usually hot mop under tile.
RicodJour wrote in news:db117e65-28cd-4684-99f3- snipped-for-privacy@d26g2000vby.googlegroups.com:
So how come each-and-every new home I see being built near my place has the shingles nailed right over top of the bare plywood?
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:j75c37$9ol$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:
Likely, I guess.
But ALL of them? EVERY one? NO exceptions? Not even on the expensive homes?
When we redid our roof a few years ago (builder's shingles on ply) , we went whole-hog, with the felt and with the ice guard along the drip edge.
Because the contractors are cheap-asses who don't care if your house is built RIGHT as long as it's done as cheaply as possible.
International Residential Code for One- and Two-Family Dwellings
R905.2.7 Underlayment application. For roof slopes from two units vertical in 12 units horizontal (17-percent slope), up to four units vertical in 12 units horizontal (33-percent slope), underlayment shall be two layers applied in the following manner. Apply a 19-inch (483 mm) strip of underlayment felt parallel to and starting at the eaves, fastened sufficiently to hold in place. Starting at the eave, apply 36- inch-wide (914 mm) sheets of underlayment, overlapping successive sheets 19 inches (483 mm), and fastened sufficiently to hold in place. Distortions in the underlayment shall not interfere with the ability of the shingles to seal. For roof slopes of four units vertical in 12 units horizontal (33-percent slope) or greater, underlayment shall be one layer applied in the following manner. Underlayment shall be applied shingle fashion, parallel to and starting from the eave and lapped 2 inches (51 mm), fastened sufficiently to hold in place. Distortions in the underlayment shall not interfere with the ability of the shingles to seal. End laps shall be offset by 6 feet (1829 mm).
I'm not either but I know it's been a common practice, by builders, for at least forty years.
Odd, I don't think I've _ever_ seen it done without the felt up in PA or down here in TN.
Neither of my houses in NY (built in '68) or VT ('86) originally had felt under the shingles. The NY house was a mass-built "starter house". The VT house certainly wasn't. I have no idea what's under the shingles on this house (AL - '07), but I think it does. At least the houses in the development built after we moved in, do.
Please supply us with a reference for ANY shingle manufacturer that voids the warranty if the shingle is applied over roofing felt.
No fire issues, and insurance agents generally only need to know how old the roof is, and what roofing material. They don't cover leak damage from deteriorated roofing - only catastrophic damage.
When I had my roof redone here in Ontario about 4 years ago, the companies I asked for price quotes were all over the map on this. One said I was crazy when I requested a price with felt, several gave a price with or without, and one said he would not do it any other way.
Last year when my daughter's townhouse needed a new roof the first company I called said they had upped their price this year and would no longer touch a roof job without double ice guard at the bottom, single ice gusrd on the gable ends, metal drip guard all around, and felt over everything before a layer of 20 year shingles. Anything less, please go bother someone else. Their experience was feltless did not stand up.
They got the job. $100 more than a company that had to be convinced to use the felt.
The guy that did the job said they had been doing feltless roofing to compete on price, but with the callbacks they had experienced over the last couple years they were "tired of pissing into the wind" competing on price and decided to go back to doing a top quality job, for whatever price that entailed, even if he had to lay off a crew. Ended up with more work than they could handle -
The product you saw was likely Permafelt, a plastic film underlayment. It is popular with local roofers because it it light, tear resistant and OK to walk around on. For the DIY crowd, it can stand the weather for several weeks or more. We used on our home place last summer and on a project house too. Far easier to apply than felt and more of a water barrier. There may be other brands...Permafelt is what Menards carries.
Joe
I'll see if I still have the info. That was two roofs ago. first one got ripped off by a tornado and when they started putting on the shingles without felt I called them on it. Well he showed me the installation info and sure enough it was to be installed without underlayment. Roof had aged well(15 years) but was hail damaged this past year so it got replaced. Most recent roof has underlayment. I put the new warranty papers in my file, dont remember if I removed the old ones or not, I ll check. The no- felt roof was installed in '96, fairly certain it was Owens Corning.
Jimmie
Nope. Sorry, Jimmie. I've been installing shingles since well before that and Owens Corning never made three tab or architectural fiberglass/asphalt shingles that did not require an underlayment. It's been industry standard since Moses was a pup.
Post a scan/picture of the instructions that says that, and if I'm wrong I'll donate $20 to a charity of your choice.
The fact that apparently some jurisdictions let people skate and omit the underlayment is baffling to me. It automatically voids the shingle warranty, regardless of the cause of the shingle failure, and violates all of the major building codes. Why a jurisdiction would put their constituents at risk, and over such a small expenditure, makes no sense at all.
If your contractor has done that, I'd sue them in small claims court and/or report them to the licensing bureau. You'd probably end up getting the roof for free (less applicable costs).
R
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Why wouldn't Tyvec get blown off as fast as shingles?
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