Two stroke motor without ENGINE OIL???

Page 2 of 3  
Harry K wrote:

Well, after those went out, glow plugs came in...and, as somebody else already noted, there were also the pony engine starting systems as well.
That there were alternatives before them (glow plugs) doesn't negate the previous comment...
--
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

But, technically, he's right. And since we must accept everything EXACTLY as it is written, with no allowance for common sense, colloquialisms, or brain farts, the correction is valid.
I just wish we could get back to a time when everything didn't have to be so damn exact. And netnannyism wasn't so many people's hobby.
Steve
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
on 10/17/2007 3:30 PM SteveB said the following:

Like clueless people making typos for 4" when it was obvious that 4' was meant, and Fahrenheit for Celsius, when one responder was using one and another was using the other?
--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

How about 2 stroke engines with glow plugs for running also? Yes, they have them and no, they are not diesel either. They use alcohol based fuel. I bet some of you guys used them.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 19:43:04 +0000, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

My model airplane has one.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Oh? Never saw the older ones? International TD series had a full gas system that they started on, carb, plugs, everything, using the same engine. Cat used a gas pony engine. I spent enough hours cranking them. Don't know how far they went before the glow plug system came into use.
Harry K
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Harry K wrote:

IH also used pony engines on at least some. We had a loaner for a while one year while a major repair on the 560 was underway I remember that was a real pita. The complication and starting difficulty in winter (and the odor) were main reasons Dad never switched over from LP to diesel until the 4000-series Deeres came out in the early/mid 60s. They initially were glow plug. The oldest I have on the place now is the '85 (I think I recall that, at least it's close) 4440 and it is direct start. Recollecting, I'd guess the transition to glow plugs began in the early 60s, direct start pretty widespread in the late 70s/early 80s for farm tractors, anyway. Would presume that to be roughly the same for others.
The 955 is the Yanmar 3-cyl and it still uses glow plugs. The Cat 3208 in the '88 Ford chassis truck was an optional direct start.
--
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
That hardly counts as a diesel having glow or spark plugs.
s

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

But it did back then. Those were the early days and my statement, 'except for starting', was accurate. The ones I referred to were built in the 30s and 40s. I don't know if the TD series continued that wierd starting system into the 50s.
I _really_ learned about how high comprression was on diesels the morning I grabbed the crank on the TD6 and almost drove my ankles into the ground. It was like hitting a solid block of iron. The decompression link had come adrift.
Harry K
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Kinda like trying to pull my john deere through without opening the compression relief's.
s

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Harry K wrote:

actually just a little heating element to preheat the combustion chamber . Some designs have a heating element in a box in the intake which warms the air before starting.
Its the heat of compression that fires a diesel. If the weather is warm or you had a sufficiently beefy starter you could start one without glow plugs.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
George wrote:

Spark-converted diesels do. This is a diesel engine burning natural or other fuel gas. The mixture is so lean it withstands the typical diesel heat of compression and doesn't ignite until sparked. Or they can leave the oil injection system in place and inject a small amount as a pilot to trigger combustion. In the latter case such engines are often designed to be able to up the amount of liquid fuel injected to normal levels while the gaseous fuel is turned off in which case it's known as a dual fuel engine.
Purists will maintain that if a spark ignition system replaces the fuel injection system then it's no longer a diesel. The problem with that is that words mean what the majority says they mean. I can say that a single "D" power cell is never by itself a "battery" but it's a lost cause.
Further, the definition of diesel as being an engine using the heat of compression for ignition has not always been the case either. There was a time when folks thought "Diesel" (it was usually capitalized in those days) referred to an compression-ignition engine using high pressure air for injection. Engines using "solid injection" as came to be standard were known as "oil engines." You'll see pictures of some early Diesel locomotives which say on their sides, "OIL ELECTRIC LOCOMOTIVE." Gradually it was recognized that Dr. Diesel's big innovation was compression ignition, not how fuel injection was done (or even what was injected...his first experiment used coal dust!). My point here is simply that the definition has been and is flexible. With that in mind, yes, sometimes diesels have spark plugs.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You should have learned not to say 'always' or 'never'. Back in the early days, the McCormick Deering (later International) all had spark plugs for starting. They started on gas to warm up then changed over to diesel. You can google International TD6 (for one) or Mc Deering T20 for another. Those were in the 30s and 40s which is when I was referring to.
Yes, before you go off on a tangent, the plugs were in the same cylinders. There was a compression release that had to be set as part of the starting procedure.
Technology moved on using first glow plugs and then nothign at all in many cases.
Harry K
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
on 10/19/2007 1:11 PM Harry K said the following:

Always remember never to say 'always' or 'never'.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
on 10/16/2007 10:30 AM Ignoramus1841 said the following:

No separate oil other than the oil mix in the gas. The oil-gas mix lubricates all internal parts. http://science.howstuffworks.com/two-stroke2.htm
--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Thanks a lot, guys. This time, I lived up to my screen name! Now I feel better about running this engine. My previous experience was with 4 stroke engines and diesels (Onan DJE repair and Cummins L423D repair).
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Ignorant is just never having something explained to you. Stupid is having it explained to you, and not listening to the explanation. That's how we learn. We're born not knowing everything. Then, we're taught about this and that. Being stupid is choosing not to heed instruction.
Now you know.
Now that you've seen how it works, it IS exquisitely simple, isn't it?
Steve
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Well said. Sometimes I go even beyond ignorant and do not listen well. Every time I do so, I get screwed in some way or another.

Yes, it is great. This blower is fantastic and cannot be compared to "consumer" models. (such as the one I had)
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The first explanation I had of it had an animated moving parts diagram. Since the fuel/air mixture is forced into the combustion chamber by the downward travel of the piston, it achieves almost a supercharger effect, forcing the air/gas mix rather than working on suction as a four stroke does.
Steve
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:06:30 -0700, "SteveB"

2 strokes do a great job at high RPMs that is why racing motor cycles and boat outboard motors used to always be 2 strokes. The problems start at low RPMs. You are not moving enough fuel at an economic throttle opening to lubricate the engine so they usually do tricks with the timing and they end up smoking a lot. These days guys like Evinrude are doing things with computers and independent oiling systems to make a clean 2 stroke. The FICHT was their first unsuccessful swing at it but the Etec is doing OK now.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.