TV tuner cards

The PCI card interface has been around for 23 years and can still be found on many new motherboards today.

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PCIe has been around for 12 years and is likely to be the standard for many years to come.

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Internal cards don't take up extra space, don't need additional cables, and don't need separate power supplies.

I record TV shows on my PC, then stream them over my home network using a "media streamer". This provides many advantages, including being able to watch shows I've recorded, videos I've downloaded from online sources (youtube, etc.), video I've ripped from my DVD's, or home movies I've created myself.

Anthony Watson

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Reply to
HerHusband
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Since this PC will be used as an appliance more than a traditional PC, I doubt the system hardware will change before the card is obsolete. I have had PCs hooked to TVs for about 16 years and you find it is really a pretty handy thing. I have a "smart TV" but my PC connected TVs are a lot smarter.

Reply to
gfretwell

Expound on this "media streamer , please ? The way I'm doing it is to put it on a hdd in one of my comps , stream it from there to whatever box I want to watch it on . I believe the intranet lag might be why I have had synch problems , and have just ordered a 1Tb hdd to install in the "media box" .

Reply to
Terry Coombs

Ed Zachary ! This comp's only function is to play media on the TV . I have my desktop and one virtually identical (slower processor) out in the shop . The wife has a laptop to do her facebook (shudder) thing . I've had as many as 7 comps networked (when I was down in Memphis) but I've scaled back , left the older comps for the G-kids to have fun with .

Reply to
Terry Coombs

Once I have a movie on a network connected drive, any other (PC) TV can play it directly and if it is in a Windoze Media Player library with the service activated my Samsung smart TV can play it too but I found it easier to just spin them out to a USB drive and plug it into the Smart TV directly.

Reply to
gfretwell

And which voltages are supported by each variant? I have machines (and cards) with 3.3V interfaces, 5V interfaces, PCI-X "wide" busses, PCI-e x16/x1, etc.

"Standards are great; everyone should have one!"

Sure they do! The space is *in* the PC! The PC tends to be larger as it needs to house the power supply -- which must be capable of powering the additional cards (even if none are ever installed!) There are usually additional interfaces (disk, USB, keyboard) that also require real estate and power.

There are more watts POTENTIALLY dissipated in the case so the case tends to need active cooling (fan) -- which also takes up space.

I currently use: at each TV. They'll eventually be replaced by boxes 1/4 this size running on a couple of watts (i.e., *almost* battery powered; in practice, powered *by* the network so the power supply takes up no space in the device).

No disk in them so no need to power (or cool!) it.

IIRC, the Dell boxes draw ~15W; the HDHomeRun requires ~10W -- and that power (heat) is distributed in different places in the home. So, two live programs on 2 displays requires ~40W (in addition to whatever the displays' requirements might be). When a display isn't required, it's ~15W goes away. When not "capturing" OTA broadcasts, those 10W go away as well.

You can, instead, let the HDHomeRun talk directly to a NAS to create a DVR. And/or a wireless router so it can serve video via WiFi (think: tablets, phones).

You have to either:

- let the PC that houses the capture card(s) act as media server, or

- push the content from that PC onto a UPNP media tank that will later serve it

I keep the HDHomeRun devices on the lowest shelf in a kitchen cupboard -- near the VOIP gateway, PoE switch, UPS and database server (I store audio/video

*in* a database just like any other "data" -- including its metadata).

I can record 4 DTV channels simultaneously (and add 2 tuners at a time almost indefinitely -- no "card slot limitations" in a PC to worry about!) AND serve ~30 SD live/stored products simultaneously (using a slow 20MB/s USB disk) where the number of "screens" on which a product is playing doesn't factor into that bandwidth calculation (i.e., if you happen to show the SAME content on 4 different screens in 4 different rooms, it counts as *1*).

[My design target was a family of 4 with each person watching one show while recording TWO others. Adding two more users just means another dual-tuner box attached to the antenna feed]
Reply to
Don Y

A media tank is nothing more than a storage medium from which content can be *pulled* to a device (an appliance or a PC) that will then display it on a screen, play it over a speaker, etc.

How you get that content onto the server is a separate issue. The HDHomeRun devices will push the content onto a "network attached storage" (disk) device. Or, a computer can *pull* the content from them and put it onto its own notion of storage

This is done by the magic of "standards": "Let's agree to support these operations in this particular manner". So, two parties (devices) can effectively co-operate as if they were parts of the same device (i.e., the storage medium can act like it is part of the TV/display; likewise, the storage medium can act like it is ALSO part of the "capture device")

Beyond this, you can enhance the individual components to support additional capabilities. E.g., I can configure my NAS to download torrents while it is serving up stored content (to a TV).

The advantage to a media tank is that you can put *all* of your "media" (movies, photos, music, etc.) on the device and then access it from whatever devices you want -- over wired/wireless networks

[If the media tank is implemented as a PC, then you can conceivably also access that content on the "PC's display" using a suitable program to "play" the content]
Reply to
Don Y

But how do you *get* the media onto that PC?

If the PC has an optical disc drive, you can use it as a DVD player.

If the PC has a USB interface, you can play media from storage devices connected to that USB interface.

If the PC has extra disc capacity, you can copy media onto its internal store. Once there, you can play that media.

If the PC has a network connection, you can stream content from on The Internet. Or, "play" files remotely mounted (e.g., from a "network share" exported by some other machine on your network) elsewhere in your home.

But, you can also prune the "extra" functionality out of the PC and just treat it as an appliance: a device dedicated to "playing content" on the attached TV, speakers, etc. You can then *source* the content from any of these other places AS IF they were part of the PC and the PC was part of the TV.

Put a similar PC/appliance on *each* TV and all of those TV's can benefit from the content sources you have available. Likewise, hook a pair of speakers to each PC and you can listen to any of your music collection, podcasts, internet radio, etc. on each of those machines.

However, using a COTS PC to access media outside the home means you have now opened that box up to potential remote exploits (we all know how great MS is at producing secure products!)

Reply to
Don Y

Per Don Y:

Poor choice of words by me. Somehow they were actually representing the content owners.

Reply to
(PeteCresswell)

Per Terry Coombs:

I probably don't know enough to expound properly, but I have been using something called SageTV for quite a few years.

What it does:

- Schedules/records TV programs

- Plays ripped DVDs from my NAS box or 24-7 PC

- Plays DVDs directly (although I have never done that)]

For Sage, you dedicate one PC somewhere in the house to be the "SageTV Server". Other PC's (like the ones under each TV) run something called "SageTV Client" which gives full/total access to SageTV running on the server.

Alternatively (and this is what I have done) you can buy little black boxes are totally silent (no moving parts) and pull 5-12 watts and act like the "Client" PC under a TV.

Sage got bought out by Google and went offline for a couple years, but now it is back as public domain software.

You can get the little black boxes used.

Only fly in the ointment is that, with the Public Domain version you would have to pay $20-$30 per year for an Electronic Program Guide service (i.e. the thing that tells Sage what TV shows are airing at what times).

The good part about Sage is that it will probably do almost everything anybody in their right mind would want to do media-wise with a decent interface. "Almost" because it does not web access... but I have a $100 box called "Wetek Core" sitting next to my Sage box that does that.

The bad part is care and feeding. It is definitely not an "Appliance" like TIVO... you have to work with it a little to get it doing what you want done.

Reply to
(PeteCresswell)

Reply to
Terry Coombs

I am currently using a Dvico TVIX M6600-A media streamer:

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It's about 9"x9"x3" so it fits easily on my entertainment center. It does not need a fan for cooling, so it is completely silent. In theory you can install an internal hard drive and tuners, but for me that would defeat the advantages of streaming over my network.

Basically, I have my "main" computer in my home office. That's the machine I use to record TV shows, download content from the web, rip DVD's, etc. That keeps all the noise and heat of the PC in the office instead of out in the living room. It also means that when I upgrade my main computer, everything related to TV recording gets upgraded too.

Since my video content is saved on my main computer, it gets backed up with the rest of my data in case there is a virus, drive failure, etc. (I have many home videos going back 50 years that are irreplaceable).

I have a small program that runs in the background on my PC that acts as a media server. I simply point my media streamer to the server on the network, and I can stream all of my video content in full 1920x1080p HD video with 5.1 audio.

The M6600-A does not play back 4K video, but I don't have any 4K material to stream anyway.

The M6600-A is no longer available, but it does everything I need it to. I've had it several years, but if I need to replace it in the future I would probably look at the

Nvidia Shield:

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or the Mede8ter 600x3D:

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That's basically the way the media streamers work, except you have a tiny dedicated streamer instead of a full blown PC at each TV.

In theory, I could install a media streamer at each TV in our house and each could stream their own content from my main PC. But, I just have the one streamer in our living room.

By the way, if you don't need streaming and just want to play back content on an isolated TV, you might have a look at the Micca Speck:

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It is very tiny, about 3"x3"x1". I have one in our bedroom for the few times we watch shows in there. I can copy movies or TV shows to an SD card and plug it into the Speck in our bedroom. We don't use it a lot, but it works great when we do.

I have a gigabit network in our house, but even a simple 100Mbps network should be enough to stream most content. Depending on what you're streaming, many people even stream over Wifi connections (I still recommend wired connections).

How are your videos encoded? The only time I have issues with streaming is with really high bitrate video (i.e. 50mbps MP4 or something). Most shows I record over-the-air are 14Mbps or less MPEG2 in an MKV container. My personal home movies are all 30Mbps h.264/AC3 MP4 files.

Video eats hard drive space like crazy! :) At the moment, my video files are using about 350GB on my hard drive. Of course, I need the equivalent space on my backup drives in order to back up those videos. I use external Western Digital 3TB USB drives for backing up my computer.

Anthony Watson

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Reply to
HerHusband

The key word is "extra" space. Adding a card to my PC does not increase the space I need under my desk. It's all neatly contained within the existing PC case. I don't have an additional box to find a place for and more cables and wall warts running everywhere to connect things.

I've already maxed out the network ports on my router, so I would need to add a network switch if I wanted to add a network tuner. Another box, another power supply, more cables...

I have a 650Watt power supply, even though I rarely use more than 120 watts or so.

I use my computer for a LOT more than just recording video, so the upgraded power supply and other internals are already there. I'm just better utilizing what I already have.

Yes, but it's space I'm already using, and the fans are there already. I don't have to do anything extra to plug in a TV Tuner card.

I have no idea how much power my M6600-A media streamer draws, but I doubt it uses much. It puts off virtually no heat, it barely feels warm when you put your hand on it.

I'm sure my tiny Micca Speck uses even less power, and no heat to speak of.

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Yes, that's the method I use.

I could theoretically have 8 tuners (4 cards) in my computer, but I only have nine channels available anyway. I used to have two tuner cards (4 tuners), but rarely record more than two shows at once. When one card died, I didn't bother replacing it and haven't missed it.

Yeah, it takes very little processing power to serve even HD video. I frequently record two TV shows, while streaming HD video to the living room, and my wife is doing Facebook on the computer.

As long as I'm not hammering the hard disk editing video or something, it works flawlessly.

Anthony Watson

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Reply to
HerHusband

Per Terry Coombs:

Assuming you are running Windows on those PCs... if you tell the PC that does the recording to share the drive or folder it is recording into, you can play on any TV/PC that is connected to the LAN.

Reply to
(PeteCresswell)

(sigh) Too bad. It would have been more amusing if they were just "enterprising fellows" who took advantage of the information leaked by the torrent to make a few bucks! :>

Reply to
Don Y

I am really trying to get rid of all of those bits of plastic. Vinyl, tape, CD, and DVD

The smallest TV in our house is 40" and all support VGA so the three that are not "smart" have a PC hooked to them. Any old curb side XP machine will work if it is 3gz with a gig or two of RAM. "Flash" is the biggest power hog. If I am just running a local player a 1gz with

1/2 a g of ram works fine. If you are willing to run an older version of Flash, you can run a lesser PC >
Reply to
gfretwell

And now the PC under your desk has to be running in order for you to record/watch content.

We don't have "more cables" or wall warts, here. The (network) cable from the wall plate to the "display server" carries power and command/content. I can actually power an external USB disk drive from the power available on each network connection!

The antenna cables to the HDHomeRuns are in the kitchen cupboard -- along with the cables from the (land line) telephone company (to the VOIP gateway), the cordless phone base station, a cable modem (when/if we ever go that route), the PoE network switch, the database server and the two UPS's to back up the entire system (including the bits of kit that are scattered around the house; so, we don't need 48 wall warts to power the cameras, speakers, irrigation system, wireless access points, microwave link, etc.)

[I don't like "kit" to be visible!]

Ah, I have a 72 port switch for the house; 24 more ports just for the office and another 16 to handle the printers and NAS boxes.

But you are *requiring* it to satisfy a need that could be addressed by something smaller, less costly, less dependant on THAT particular implementation.

E.g., I can let one of my PC's act as a telephone answering machine. I can let it email incoming messages (as sound files) to me when I am out of town (so I don't have to pay toll charges to "check my messages"). Or, I can have a little box that effectively does the same thing and leave my computers OFF when out of town.

Except keep the PC running in order to use the tuner card!

Yes, but they are *appliances* intended to NOT be power hungry. A PC is typically not designed with that in mind.

Here, I can power up/down each bit of technology that I use to control the house "under program control". E.g., if there are things in the yard that need to be watered, the PoE switch powers up the irrigation controller; the irrigation controller loads its software from the database server (the only "persistent storage" that I have) and then waters whatever needs to be watered. When done, the irrigation controller powers off.

The same is true with the network speakers (power them up when I want to listen to music, TV, podcasts, etc -- then power them down when I'm done), the security cameras, front doorbell, HVAC controls, etc.

[I haven't yet designed the "network display" as TV technology is changing far too quickly to make a long term design decision -- only to discover that 8K TV's will be the norm in a couple of years, etc.]

But you're just thinking about *your* house. I have to have a scalable solution. E.g., you could install my automation system in a hotel and feed video to 100 different rooms for 100 different "guests". And, ensure the heat/ACbrrr is properly controlled in each of those rooms.

Or, in a commercial business/office where each employee/department may have different A/V needs (video conferencing, etc.).

Coming up with a solution that scales well is a lot different. A business isn't likely to want to have to discard all the kit they bought last year just because they can't buy a particular add-in card *this* year.

It also takes very little bandwidth! E.g., even a USB2 disk is more than up to the task (no need to tap my 320MB/s disk farms).

And, you can talk to a disk with very little hardware. E.g., I can plug a pair of disks into an NSLU2 (the size of a pack of cigarettes) and now they're a NAS:

Interfaces are becoming narrower and narrower. "Wide busses" cost a lot to implement (add-in cards). And, most people don't want/need to "expand" -- other than disk size or memory. (e.g., laptops and tablets aren't expandable)

[My first PC had the floppy controller and serial/parallel ports on an ISA card; the video was another card; the sound was yet another card; SCSI HBA ate another slot, network interface still more, etc. Now, all of these (except SCSI) are built onto EVERY motherboard -- and, for modest video needs, even the video is on the motherboard!]

We saw disk drives go from the two-ribbon-plus-power ST506 interface to the 40 conductor IDE to the serial ATA standard. 25 pin serial ports were downsized to 9 pins then they -- and the parallel ports -- were exchanged for 4 wire USB interfaces. Ditto mouse and keyboard.

In the embedded system world, the USB interface is the swiss army knife of expansion; why bother adding a disk controller to a device when you can just plug a USB disk into it? Even if that connection is entirely hardwired INSIDE the device?

Reply to
Don Y

We've been trying to get rid of the media (CD/DVD/vinyl/dead trees/etc.) AND the "plastic boxes that play them"! I'm aiming for an ascetic

*appearance*; no "technology black" boxes piled up anywhere, no thermostats on the wall, no doorbell annunciators, etc. Everything has to be able to hide *inside* the wall (e.g., 1G Jboxes) or inside the device of which it is logically a part (e.g., put the computer, power supply, and amplifier *in* the speaker and just run a network cable to connect it to the wall).

A newer box will tend to consume less power. The Dell FX160's draw < 15W and run at ~1.6GHz. I think there is a dual core version as well.

We don't run flash. Anything that we want to watch gets converted to a more portable format. Eventually, we'll have a single audio format and a single video format -- doing the conversions *as* we add the media to our library (e.g., my network speakers use a proprietary encoding that lends itself well to reliable network delivery; so, dropped packets don't compromise the quality of the listening experience).

Most UPnP servers require the client to be able to decode whatever format the requested content happens to have (e.g., OGG, WAV, MP3, etc.)

*or* will transcode on the fly to a specific target format (wasteful of resources and limits how many clients the server can support simultaneously). If our clients all expect "my" audio format, then why not store the content in THAT form and do the conversion once?
Reply to
Don Y

Have you ever looked at the power consumption of a cable or satellite box?

Reply to
gfretwell

Yes -- they aren't designed with power efficiency in mind! E.g., the HDHomeRun's two tuners, CPU and network interface draws less than 10W.

And, you don't have to leave it powered up if you don't need it to be!

Cable and satellite boxes sit there 24/7/365 keeping warm just in case you *might* want to use it.

Reply to
Don Y

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