TV conversion question? ? ?

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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

I agree that "Walmart" has become synonymous with retailing in America*, but to distinguish the company itself from a generic retailer, perhaps you should observe the Xerox convention: A captial initial letter indicates the company and a lower-case letter implies the concept.
Do that one thing, and I bet the number of people claiming you are a twit diminishes by at least ten percent.
-------- * A goodly part of America, but not all. There are no Walmart stores in New York City, D.C., Boston, San Francisco, Chicago, Seattle, Jersey City, or Ann Arbor. There's one in Los Angeles and two in Philadelphia (the same number as in Sioux Falls, SD).
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wrote:

There is absolutely nothing you can do to reduce the number of people who think YOU are a twit.
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

More agreement. 'Tis the "White Man's Burden.' But I (and others) must soldier on. It's not my choice, I was born to the manor, sort of a noblesse oblige.
You'll thank me when you get older.
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On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 04:29:43 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

But this isn't the FCC, it's signon sandiego.

Maybe it's even illegal to sell it, but it's still for sale.

Well, somehow it's wrong. Even if for the sake of argument it is illegal to sell analog sets, they are still selling them.

This might be true, but in the first post you said "All tv's sold in the US". A big difference. Who knows how big the unsold inventory of analog tv's is.

He said he was shopping at a discount house. (And I'm pretty sure the ones I saw were also at Target, like Salty says. Maybe they bought a big bunch of them somewhere. There are loads of seconds, odd-lots, unsold lots, leftovers, of all sorts of things. Certain stores specialize in them (although often mixing them with cheap shlock that isn't a bargain), and others sell them sometimes.)

The problem with that is that box writers are very good at being misleading. Do you remember when iiuc lots of tvs were called cable-compatible, even though they still required a cable box to receive stations. IIUC, all tvs including the ones from the 1950's were cable-compatible by that standard.
I wanted some food that didn't need refrigeration and saw that Bumblebee Tuna had bags like that. One of their 3 similar packages showed something wrapped up in what looked like baloney, but might have been made out of tuna. I thought that might be a "serving suggestion", so I looked further and the bag said "wraps". So I bought it. I haven't opened the bag yet, but now I see the words are in a circle, with a big banner in the middlle separating "Good for" from "Wraps". So it's just the same chopped tuna fish with a different flavor from the other two bags. And the other two were just as suitable for wraps. It's only $1.50, but I have to remember to bring a fork and not think I can hold it by a wrapper that it doesnt have.

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It's an article from the March 5, 2005 Boston Globe. I remember the reqt to phase-in ATSC tuners very well. It started with a date, maybe around 2005 for the largest sets and worked it's way down in size over time. I also provided another link here in the thread to a broadcast engineering site that says the same thing. Kurt provided another link. So, now what? You want to question the accuracy of the Boston Globe and the other sources? And your source, other than your own opinion would be?

So far, the only one that appears to be selling them is Target. They are not taking orders online, but do say they have stock in some stores. If you have any other examples, I'd like to see them.

Yes, that's true. I mistated it. But interestingly, it's beyond manufactured. According to the link Kurt provided, the FCC order bans the importation or interstate shipment of TVs without an ATSC tuner after Mar 2007.
Knowing how the consumer electronics biz works, would you expect to find sets that haven't been shipped for 2 years still on the shelf? Yeah, you might find some exception, which apparently the Target case is. IIf you have others that you know of, I'd be happy to see them.

Stores could buy them, but they couldn't legally ship them interstate for the last 2 years. That would seem to severly limit what you might find in the retail channel.

Nonsense. The boxes will state if they have an ATSC tuner. In fact, another specific reqt of the FCC is that those TV without ATSC that have been sold in the last 2 years MUST have a specific warning that they are not DTV compatible. Besides, a retailer would be pretty stupid to sell crap that they are going to have to take back.

Absolutely not what? The freaking FCC started this phase-in about 4 years ago. It's a fact. It started with the largest TV and worked it's way down. Since Mar 2005 all TV's have been included, which means you can't manufacture them, import them, ship them interstate.
So, you saw some leftovers. Maybe they were refurbished, so what? Hmmm, doesn't the fact that they were clearly labeled go completely opposite to your whine above?


One more time: The FCC mandated the changeover. It was NOT left to the discretion of the manufacturers. The FCC did it because they wanted to be sure that all TV's being sold by now would be DTV compatible to ease the transition. OK, not all, but almost all, because 2 years later, I'd bet the amount of non ATSC units being sold is a miniscule amount of all TVs.
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On Feb 1, 12:41pm, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I stopped by Walmart and Target this afternoon to check out if they had any TVs without a digital ATSC tuner and here's the results. Target did have the Truetech 13" that was discussed in this thread. I saw one in the box and on the box description, which is brief, there is no mention of DTV or an ATSC tuner or any tuner at all for that matter. Two salespeople were standing right there and I asked them if it had a digital compatible tuner. The immediate response was "All our TVs have digital tuners" However, given the fact that it is not listed on the box and on the website it says that particular TV does not have a digital tuner, I'm inclined to think that it probably does not and the salepeople don;'t know what they are talking about. The Truetech appears to be Target's house brand and is built in Thailand.
At Walmart, every TV, including the cheapest Polaroid 15" did have a digital tuner. There were no NTSC only units.
So, it appears that if that Target TV is in fact NTSC only, then it is in violation of the law, at least on one key point. And that is that if they are selling any such TVs at this late date, then they must be marked with the required FCC statement that they lack the digital tuner and a converter will be required. That was clearly not displayed, nor was it on the box. I would also think that the law may have been violated regarding importing them, shipping them interstate, etc, as I find it hard to believe these TVs have been in all the various Target stores for almost 2 years now.
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On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 15:01:59 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

So, did you buy it?
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On Feb 1, 6:16pm, snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

No, I'm waiting for the mythical one, without any link, to appear at Walmart that you told us so much about.
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On Mon, 2 Feb 2009 03:30:56 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

What a little crybaby
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

What can you expect from a company that hates the Salvation Army bell-ringers?
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On Jan 31, 12:20pm, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I thought I read on one of the consumer websites recently that manufacturers and retailers are sometimes getting around that by calling them HDTV "monitors" instead of "receivers" - basically selling a TV without an ATSC tuner as a "monitor".
Jerry
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I believe the essential element there is that to be classified as a monitor, it cannot contain a tuner at all. If it does contain an NTSC tuner, then it's a TV and specifically covered under the FCC decree. I don;t see a point in manufacturers trying to evade the ATSC tuner at this point. There are plenty of low cost TVs with ATSC built-in. Apparently including the one that started this thread. So far, the only example anyone has come up with of a TV in the normal retail channel being sold that doesn't have an ATSC tuner is the 13" at Target.
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Ray wrote:

If your TV has antenna/cable or RCA (red, white, yellow) inputs then you can use a converter box if not, then TV will be useless. Many of the small battery powered TV's do not have any inputs and will not work after the changeover.

I recently saw some under cabinet LCD TV units for sale that did not have digital tuners. There were signs posted on the store shelf and stickers on the box saying that. If it has DTV tuner then the specs printed on the outside of the box will say so. You might also 'google' the model number and look for specs and/or reviews.

See above. Kevin
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the Zenith, also sold under the Insignia brand, are both made by LG Electronics, are the best, from the research that I did. I have bought two of the Zenith, and they work great.
James
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James wrote:

I have a Zenith on the TV in the spare bedroom and like it, but I have a Channel Master on my big TV downstairs because the CM has an S-video output which the Zenith does not. Also has a much better onscreen guide than the Zenith. The one drawback to the CM is the remote; it does not have a programmable button for your TV power, but if you have a universal remote that doesn't matter. These are the only two I've tried, but like you I spent a lot of time searching online for reviews etc. before purchasing anything.
nate
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replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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Boxes may be nearly free with the rebate card
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On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:51:18 -0800 (PST), ransley

Oh Oh, Free! Free! Thats right up your tight-ass ransley. Bubba
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The good news is you'll be able to watch that little TV a bit longer as the government will be delaying the switch over date to June. It's not a sure thing yet but the bill passed the senate and has to pass the house which is predicted to do so.
Check to make sure any TV you purchase has it's own digital tuner. If not, it'll require a box, but then again, you shouldn't even be able to find a new TV without a digital tuner.
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Or if so, they should be well labeled as such. Looking over the FCC rule making pdfs, I can't find anything that indicates any kind of a deadline for DTV tuners in sets under 13 inches.
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http://broadcastengineering.com/RF/FCC-DTV-tuner-20051104 /
"FCC commissioners voted Thursday to advance its deadline for including the ability to receiver digital television signals in all new sets to March 1, 2007 four months sooner than previously mandated.
In the Second Report and Order on Requirements for Digital Television Receiving Capability, the commission also extended the requirement to cover new receivers with screen sizes smaller than 13in and put it on the same schedule.
The action moves the deadline for digital television tuner inclusion from July 1, 2007. In a previous rulemaking proposal, the commission sought comment on advancing the final deadline to Dec. 31, 2006.
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