Tung vs. linseed

[Trent©]

I'm redoing our kitchen cabinets...and I want to put oil on them when I finish stripping them.

I did one very small door a few months ago...to see how it looked when done. I used linseed oil on it...which is what I always use. It looks great...exactly the look I'm looking for.

I have never used tung oil...have no idea even what it looks like when on, etc.

Can someone give me some practical experience they've had with tung oil? Is it much different in application...looks...etc. from linseed oil? This is all going on birch, BTW.

Do ya think the one door with the linseed oil will match the tung oil door? I was planning on putting on 4 coats of linseed oil. Will I need that many of tung oil for the same level of protection?

TIA

Have a nice week...

Trent

Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity!

[Mzone719]

I can go into a lot of detail for you but I think it would be easier if you looked at this website...www.sutherlandwelles.com.

[Leon]

In a kitchen setting, I would highly advise using a more protective varnish. These cabinets tend to be abused and wiped down more than any other in your house.

That said, a common recipe for a finish is to mix equal parts of Boiled Linseed oil, Tung Oil, and Varnish.

[Rick Stein]

You sure . . .? I thought it was equal parts of either turpentine or mineral spirits, oil (either linseed or tung), and varnish?

Rick

[mark Ransley]

Tung oil is more processed and more durable, and comes in different sheens

[Leon]

I am sure. Many recipes are common.

[Swingman]

All of the above. Your mixture is often the ingredients in "Danish" oil and its variants. The thinner is added for ease of application. Another common recipe is what Leon said ... BLO/Tung/Poly(varnish) ... mixed by many a woodworker, and sold commercially as "Sam Maloof" finish, among others, because it is what he purportedly uses on his rocking chairs.

[Joe Bobst]

These home brew finishes are never as good performance wise as a quality commercial product. Tung oil and linseed oil finishes cure by reacting with oxygen in the air IIRC, and thus poymerizing. By themselves they will take forever to cure decently, so adding varnish actually adds more of an oil, but also a catalyst like cobalt napthenate to kick off the cure. Some people like sticky kitchen cabinets, so it's a matter of taste if you'd rather brew your own. As in many things, newer technology displaces the old only because its better. HTH

Joe

[Bannerstone]

You might want to stay away from oil based finishes for the interiors. They have a characteristic of smelling uncured for a long time afterwords.

The Tried and True Varnish Oil is supposed to be a solution to this sort of problem but I understand its contingent on using very thin and well cured between coats which is most easily done when the product is heated.

I'd be more inclined to use shellac on the interiors.

David

[Bob N]

Trent, Rick is right on the turps/oil/varnish mixture. You definitely want to use a more protective finish than just oil. You might also look at the FWW article from last year about rubbing in thinned spar varnish.

[Swingman]

Agree about shellac being a possibility. However, from my experience, the only dependable, long lasting, ultimately satisfying way to go on kitchen cabinets can be summed up in one word: "lacquer" ... and I like spraying shellac every chance I get.

[Trent©]

I appreciate the advice from you and Rick...and everyone, Bob.

I've used poly quite a bit...and I mostly use the satin finish...over a stain. Even with satin, you can still see a sheen to it...and that's not the look I want. And I don't want to bring out anything except the natural color of the wood.

Is there anything that I can use that will bring out the grain...and not has ANY shine to it? Do they still make Deft? I can't remember if that had a non-glare finish.

That's why I'm stopping with just the oil...to get a non-glazed look.

And...just to pump everyone's brain...

What kind of 'more protective finish' are we talking about? What can possibly happen to the cabinets with just the oil protectant...that can't be maintained on a daily and annual basis?

Just curious as to what everyone thinks.

As I said...I did one of the doors (a small one) a while back...just to see what it'd look like. That door gets opened and closed at least once every day...with wet hands. No notice of any wear or dirt so far...that hasn't easily been wiped off. And it doesn't seem tacky.

Have a nice week...

Trent

Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity!

[donald girod]

I would NEVER use anything but oil-based poly on kitchen cabinets, because it has the greatest resistance to water. Of course, if you never use the kitchen except for chinese takeout (and I think that this does in fact characterize a lot of very expensive kitchens), then it matters not what you use. Water-based poly is probably ok too, but it generally is more likely to waterspot. In any case, oil finishes are not water resistant--the more oil, the less resistance. You can mix oil and varnish or use commercial products, but none of them will hold up as well as poly. Sprayed lacquer is ok, and catalyzed finishes used by professionals are obviously great, but if you are doing it yourself, brushing on poly with a Jen Manufacturing foam brush is hard to beat for ease, total effort, and expense. And I LIKE the smell of curing varnish, which only lasts a month or so really. But that's me. Oil smells a lot more.

I really like oil for situations where it is possible to pretty much guarantee that no idiot is going to put a wet glass on it, and in fact I have been finishing some furniture pieces with just tung oil and paint thinner. It takes about 6 weeks to finally get pretty dry, but it does eventually dry, and it doesn't darken the wood as much as linseed. It is also supposed to be somewhat more waterproof.

[Trent©]

Thanks for the input, Don.

I'm definitely goin' with oil...just not sure tung or linseed. I'm used to linseed...know what I can expect. But I've heard some things lately about tung...so I guess I need to do some more research.

But I've always thought that any kind of oil is a water repelant...that you can't mix the two.

Anyway, if nothing else, this ought to be a good experiment for me. The only thing I'm concerned about is finger dirt grinding into the tops of the doors...closing them. Not much danger from water...all vertical areas (doors & drawers). And, like I mentioned before, the first door I did I use everyday with dripping wet hands. No noticeable water stains.

I guess I can always add poly somewhere down the road if necessary.

Thanks to all for the input. My choice right now is my proven buddy 'lin'.

Have a nice week...

Trent

Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity!

[Mike G]

It is oil, thinner, varnish. The results are basically a Danish oil. Very high oil to resin content. While the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 formula is common you can vary the properties by varying the ratio's.

The thinner helps in penetration of the oil and the varnish resins provide a bit more protection then oil alone.

It makes little sense to mix three oils, varnish being a high ratio resin to tung oil mix to start with, since you gain little and don't get the penetration the above will give you.

But, like chicken soup it can't hurt and if it gives you the warm and fuzzies, what the hell.

[Mike G]

Now this isn't meant to disagree and personally, I wouldn't depend on any oil finish for any great protection from moisture, but I've always read the opposite. Linseed oil being more moisture resistant then tung oil. It was supposedly it's only saving grace. But then again that is what I seem to remember reading at some point. I'm going to see if I can find that little piece of trivia.

On another point that came up in the tread which I'm only addressing on yours rather then one of the other posts because it's less work then answering two posts, so forgive me.

Kitchen cabinets are all vertical surfaces and are really only subjected to standing water during floods. Barring that eventuality I've never seen any reason that why oil can't be used on the cabinets (NOTE, not counter tops).

From a practical point of view not only is it easy to apply but, even if it should become dull, it is also easily rejuvenated with further applications of oil.

Yes, oil doesn't provide a lot of protection from water but it does provide some, more then enough to withstand the occasional sink overflow or spilled glass of milk. Add a good coat of wax and an oil finished kitchen cabinet set will probably stay better looking with less maintenance longer then a lacquer finished cabinet set.

Just a thought or two.

[Swingman]

Some practical experience tends to lead me to believe otherwise, but the jury is still out. Although I finished my current kitchen with lacquer, my previous one was finished using an oil/varnish. The accumulation of airborne cooking oils grease down through the years did nothing but muck up the latter. Had nothing to do with vertical surfaces.

I have not been that long in this kitchen, but thus far I see none of the problems in this regard that I saw in the last kitchen early on.

[Michael Daly]

Among paddle makers, many believe that oil is better than any hard finish. But putting a paddle in the water a gazzillion times a day isn't quite the same as wiping up a splash of tomato sauce. Personally, if it's a real kitchen, I'd not use anything but a hard, washable finish.

I hear the opposite from paddle makers. Tung's a tad more resistant. YMMV Something tells me this could be debated till the cows come home.

Mike

[Mike G]

Ahh, how to be delicate about it. Years of cooking grease and smoke in the air will muck up any finish if it isn't cleaned once and awhile.

Sorry, best I could do.

Take care Mike

[Mike G]

That's why I stopped short of any definitive comment. I'm content to go with the verdict of paddle makers.