Tricky eBay Transaction

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The OP seems to think that the credit card company will ONLY refund money if it can recover the funds. Not true. I had my credit card "skimmed" and the entire set of fraudulent charges (over $15,000 in 7 hours!) were reversed immediately. As a merchant I accepted a card which had been skimmed and the real card holder initiated a chargeback which was reversed because the signatures matched and the card was approved when scanned. The real credit card holder got his money back, I got my money back, and the card issuer ate the charges. In the event of a non-in-person sale the seller must prove that the buyer received the merchandise (signature on the delivery slip) or the buyer gets a refund.
The OP just doesn't get it.
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On Oct 26, 3:49 pm, <h> wrote:

-- The OP just doesn't get it.
Or doesn't want to.
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Sorry guys, but it is you guys who think the credit card company is going to cover him that are wrong. The credit card companies will cover fraud if it's conducted by a fraudulent transaction, the goods are never sent, etc. If the SELLER took his credit card as payment and never shipped, they would reverse it, investigate, and ultimately he'd get his money back.
But that is not the case here. Who's the "merchant" that has the contractual agreement with the credit card company? PAYPAL Paypal was asked to charge his credit card and then send the money to whoever the card holder asked it be sent to. That is exactly what they did. The credit card transaction with Paypal was legitimate and that is where the coverage by the credit card companies end. They will not cover it. End of story.
Now Paypal and Ebay will certainly investigate if the guy never ships, and finally close his accounts, but that isn't going to get your $3000 back.
Think about what you're proposing. If the credit card companies were to refund money for every credit card transaction where Paypal or Western Union sends money to some unknown Joe Scmoe in Pakistan, they would open the doors to fraud.
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wrote:
On Oct 26, 3:49 pm, <h> wrote:

Every forum has trolls giving useless advice and irrelevant answers yet belittle others to boost their own miserable self-esteem and worth. This group is no exception.
This is a simple Q & A, what is so difficult about it?
Pay attention!
Q: "I wonder if it is possible to complete this transaction with minimal risk in case this seller is unscrupulous."
A: i) seller issues an itemized invoice (product description, qty, part #,...) ii) purchaser notifies CC issuer of impending transaction, forwards invoice to CC cust. serv. & gets authoriz'n iii) CC iss'r notifies PayPal of transaction in progress iv) payPal confirms trans'n, notifies seller, flags the trans'n & holds funds v) seller ships vi) product lands vii) if (product = invoice) then     purchaser accepts     paypal remits funds in full to seller elseif (product not= invoice) then     purchaser not accept     product shipped back @ seller's expense     CC charge reversed elsif (product = invoice) & (purchaser = buyer's remorse)     product shipped back @ purchaser's expense     CC charge reversed minus shipping endif
Those who said the answer is not to pay upfront or walk away get partial marks for being partially correct. All others get an 'F' for not answering the question or being just plain wrong. Good bye.
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Now this is pretty ass backwards to begin with. Since when does a purchaser call up the credit card company and forward an invoice to them? They'd laugh at you. And why would the credit card company want to look at an invoice from a company THAT DOES NOT TAKE CREDIT CARDS?

No, Paypal just submits your credit card info to the credit card company when you tell them to charge X dollars on your credit card and send it to snipped-for-privacy@someISP.com. It's approved/disapproved in a few secs.

You get an even bigger F. Paypal is pretty much an electronic service, it's not like they have hundreds of people around to hand hold invoices and get mixed up in all this crap. They do electronic transactions through a server. What you are proposing, is essentially an escrow service, which AFAIK, Paypal does not provide. If they do, I'd like to see a reference.
Now there are escrow services the guy could use in conjuction with an Ebay purchase. But that involves figuring out how you do that, which service is not a fraud, and also assumes the seller will agree to it. Most won't because it complicates the process and they don;'t get paid quickly.
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I think there is a bug in your code, based on this line from the OP:
(the seller) "then demanded WU/bank draft for the entire purchase to proceed w/ shipping"
Specifically, I think these lines are in error:
iv) payPal confirms trans'n, notifies seller, flags the trans'n & holds funds v) seller ships
Somewhere in your code, you need this line:
if (not seller has funds) then not seller ships
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wrote:

Just some thoughts....
According to you, the rules set up by the seller are: "Any other mode of payment is fine for as long as the money is in his bank before him shipping the product."
Then you wonder aloud "if it is possible to complete this transaction with minimal risk in case this seller is unscrupulous."
It seems to me that the answer is pretty obvious - No.
If the guy is not going to ship until he has cash (or its equivalent) in hand, you'll never get the product until you pay him, in full, using a payment vehicle that gives him full control of the funds. It doesn't get any riskier than that.
If those are indeed the rules, you have 2 options: Buy from him and hope he's honest or move on.
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DerbyDad03 wrote:

In all fairness, when it comes to eBay, nothing is fair. I wouldn't buy this type of product for this amount of money from eBay. I think you are an idiot for even trying.
--
Zyp



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Comments inserted. BTW, there's nothing tricky about this potential transaction.
"Frugal Farmer" wrote in message

Then, tell the seller to run a "Dutch" auction.

You should've sent eBay a copy of this along with full headers. You wouldn't be worrying about trying to deal with this seller which is undoubtly trying to circumvent fees. They would be NARU'ed by now. They also are not allowed to display the Paypal logo, without accepting it.

Yes, get a clue b/4 trying to make a big purchase on eBay. Try getting some eBay experience buying smaller items, b/4 jumping in over your idiotic head.
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Yea, don't do it. This is a no-brainer. Go and buy roofing supplies from your local lumberyard!! I would never buy stuff like that on ebay. You are just asking to get hosed!!
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Yeah, don't!!!!!!!!!
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smart buyers have payment figured out to suit them before they buy. i hate it when a buyer wants to rewrite the payment terms he agreed to by bidding after the sale. but it takes all kinds..
http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm
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