Transporting 20 gallons of gas in your trunk and storing in your back yard in the open air question

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On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:27:08 -0700, Steve B wrote:

I'm trying. I'm trying. :)
My husband fills my car with gas all the time from Costo runs he makes with his car. He fills up his sedan plus four five-gallon cans at the Costco pump. The advantage is he waits on line once but gets to fill up two cars. The advantage to me is I never ever have to fill my gas.
So I'm also interested in the law. The Costco gas attendant can't possibly not be seeing him do this for years. They never say anything. Neither has anyone else. You'd think a cop or two would have been on line waiting at some point or another. Or the trucker who fills up the huge gas tanks would mention something.
Looking for the law, I scoured the Caltrans (fancy name for the California DOT) web site for hours. I can't find a single document that says what the law is for transport of gasoline in portable storage containers for personal use.
I'll keep looking. It frustates me that something so simple is so hard to find the law for.
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LM wrote:

i suppose you could devolve to an old fashioned method. do you have a phone? perhaps you could call them up.
frankly, if it's not a citable law, they can't write a ticket for it, making the limit be...as much as you want.
there really isn't a law or regulation for everything, even though it sometimes seems so.
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On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:15:21 -0700, chaniarts wrote:

Whom would you call?
I can imagine the phone call now ....
"Hello, Caltrans switchboard ... what extension please?" -> Lisa: "Um... I don't know what extension. I just want to look up a law"."What extension please, maaam" --> Lisa: "Um ... I don't know. I'd like to ask a question about gas laws""I asked the question first, maaam. What extension please?" --> Lisa: "Um ... I really don't know whom I want to talk to. Someone whocan answer a question about how many gallons of gasoline you can carry in the trunk of your car" "What extension please" ...
And so on ... like a broken record ...
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We have a really good info line here. I can call 311 and get almost any question, regarding the city, answered. It's pretty impresssive. Another thing is, most, if not all, local and state statutes are on the internet. He could Google it. May take some time.
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On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:46:55 -0500, JimT wrote:

I posted a few references for California legal search sites.
None contained ANY California law regarding the transportation and storage of 5-gallon jugs of gasoline for personal use.
Many contained transportation of 120 gallons or more; and OSHA sites contained regulations for the work place; but so far, nobody on this planet can cite a specific California law that regulates the storage or transportation of 20-gallons worth of gasoline in the state of California.
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On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:57:38 -0700, Smitty Two wrote:

I want to stay within the law.
If the law says I can't transport anything in the trunk, I won't.
If it says I can't store anything in my yard, I won't.
However, if it allows me to transport and store twenty or twenty five gallons, I will.
BTW, I moved the gas cans into the shed along the other fence. I was leaving them outside because I thought it was safer due to venting; but the shed is pretty airy too. The only problem is all the equipment in the shed has gas in their gas tanks too (mowers, bikes, a cultivator, weed whackers, blowers, chainsaw, hedge trimmers, pressure washer, etc.).
The neighbor's concerns shouldn't be any different. There are still twenty gallons of gas (when full) at a time on my property in gas cans. Then again, I have forty gallons in the garage (in the cars) and so does he. Another fifteen or so gallons in the tools if they're all full. I see him mowing his lawn and using hedge trimmers and weed whackers himself, so he must have at least five gallons himself.
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Well, be quiet, or someone in California WILL make a law. They got one on the books for everything else. ;-)
Steve
visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
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Whatever you do, don't ask a govt agency!
When I still lived in CA, my buddy wanted to buy av-gas for his stroked HD. The airport, jes down the street, wouldn't sell it to him until he a).... b).... c)... etc. He then tried to comply with those requirements and called the Fire Dept for info. It got real regulatory and really expensive very quickly. Only if stored in yada yada...! He finally went with low compression heads for his stroker. CA is real anal about that kinda stuff. I went one better and moved to CO. ;)
nb
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On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:34:23 -0700, Bill Murphy

sun gas tanks expend and contract and that can eventually damage the containers.
Since this is California, the state which has more laws than the whole rest of the country combined, it might be illegal to haul more than one 5 gal. can in your trunk. Call your D.O.T and ask, then tell us all. Heck, I often haul 3 five gal cans for my tractor in the back of my pickup.
You could get a 55gal drum with a hand pump and put all the gas in that can. That's an approved method on most farms, but who knows in Calif. Plus, if you're in a city, that means more laws. Calif is a nice state, but the laws are rediculous.

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On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:38:54 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com wrote:

There is a world of difference between carrying gas cans in an open pickup bed and an enclosed car trunk.
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And don't forget the possibility of the curious (or destructive) teen who comes upon these cans and decided to light a match to see what happens.
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wrote:

And I did not think of static electricity. Actually, many years ago I was cleaning something on my engine with a rag soaked with gas. The engine was running (yea, I know that was stupid). One of my plug wires had a crack or hole in the insulation. I got a nasty shock and at the same time that rag burst into flames from the spark. Since I was barehanded, my hand were on fire and my shirt caught too. Luckily I tossed the rag on to the concrete driveway and did a drop and roll on the lawn which made out the shirt fire. Then the nearby garden hose took care of the burning rag. My hands stopped burning as soon as I tossed the rag. In the end, my hands were mildly burned, my shirt was trash, and a couple of the smaller 12v wires on my engine were a little melted. It could have been much worse. I learned a big lesson and I also replaced those crappy plug wires the same time I taped up the melted wires.
These days if I clean anything with gas, the engine is turned off and battery cable disocnnected. (assuming the part is attached to the engine).
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On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:38:54 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com wrote:

EPA web site says nothing about any specific volume for long term gasoline storage. http://www.epa.gov/epahome/hi-summer.htm
Using and Storing Gasoline In the summer, lots of portable containers are used to store and transport fuels for lawnmowers, chainsaws and recreational vehicles. These portable containers can emit hydrocarbons; in addition, spills can leak into ground water. Here are some tips to follow to reduce these concerns:
Use Proper Containers Use only containers approved by a nationally recognized testing lab, such as Underwriters Laboratories (UL). Containers should be fitted with a spout to allow pouring without spilling and to minimize the generation of vapors. Always open and use gasoline containers in a well-ventilated area away from children and animals.
Fill Cautiously Fuel equipment on a hard surface such as concrete or asphalt and use a funnel and/or spout to prevent spilling or splashing when fueling lawn and recreational equipment and always fuel outside where there is adequate ventilation to disperse the vapors
Store Carefully Store as little gasoline as possible and be certain to keep your gasoline container properly sealed. Store the gasoline in a cool, dry place and never in direct sunlight. Store at ground level to minimize the danger of falling and spilling. Do not store gasoline in a car trunk. There is a threat of explosion from heat and impact. Do not store gasoline in your basement.
Avoid Spills Avoid spilling gasoline on the ground, especially near wells. If a small spill occurs use kitty litter, saw dust or an absorbent towel to soak up the spill, then dispose of it properly Dispose Properly Do not dispose of gasoline down the drain, into surface water, onto the ground, or in the trash. You should check with your town concerning using your local household hazardous waste collection for safe disposal of excess or old gasoline.
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On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:38:54 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com wrote:

OSHA says the cans need to be 5 gallons or less in order to transport.
http://simplifiedsafety.com/blog/does_your_gas_can_meet_osha_requirements /
But they say nothing about how many you can transport at the same time or where you have to put the cans.
Here's what it says.
OSHA Standard 29 CFR 1926.152(a)(1) states "Only approved containers and portable tanks shall be used for storage and handling of flammable and combustible liquids. Approved safety cans or Department of Transportation approved containers shall be used for the handling and use of flammable liquids in quantities of 5 gallons or less.
Anytime the word "shall" is used in a regulation, it means that this rule is mandatory and must be followed.
What is an approved safety can or DOT gas can?
A safety can is (29CFR1926.155(1) an approved, closed container, of not more than 5 gallons capacity, having a flash arresting screen, spring closing lid and spout cover and so designed that it will safely relieve internal pressure when subjected to fire exposure.
Approval is given by a nationally recognized testing laboratory, for example, Underwriters' Laboratory, Inc.
Gas cans can only display DOT approval markings when they meet stringent Department of Transportation requirements. Here is where it gets confusing, inexpensive plastic gas cans may meet EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) requirements, but they do NOT meet DOT rules. Some gas cans may say they meet CARB spill-proof regulations in certain states or AQMD (Air Quality Management District) rules. Again, this doesn't help when trying to comply with OSHA. None of these other regulatory agencies are the same as DOT. They are not interchangeable.
If your head isn't already spinning, one last point. If you are looking for a UL "approval", you will see the following words on the product, UL Listed. If your can has a UL Classified marking, this is not the same as UL Listed (approved). If you want more information about UL markings, go to http://tinyurl.com/pxb9dt
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I would just keep it out of any direct sun, not store it for months as some volitile components will escape through plastic, degrading the gas, yes it airtight but not 100% impermiable and be sure you have no enemies.
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Bill Murphy wrote:

On transportation - How else is the gas going to get from where it is to where it needs to be? Perhaps it could miracle itself?
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You can transport gas, but only 5 gallons at a time, and only in an open bed or enclosed trunk.
Of course, unless you load up ten 5-gallon jugs with gas and stack them in the back of the minivan with the kids, in front of a cop, nobody will be any the wiser.
Unless you ADVERTISE that you're doing something illegal, nobody is going to know you're doing something illegal...
Yeah, let's stack a dozen gas cans along the fence where the nosy neighbor will see them and blow the whistle on you.... That's called being a MORON.
Too bad common sense isn't common anymore.
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snipped-for-privacy@rochester.rr.com wrote:

You make a good point. Tell the neighbor that it's pre-mixed fertilizer.
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On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:37:35 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@rochester.rr.com wrote:

But how do you get the clandestine 5 five gallon gas cans into the trunk at the gas station without anyone seeing you?
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On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:48:01 +0000 (UTC), Judy Zappacosta

Don't know about storage. Others are citing rules. I keep plastic 5 gallon, 2 gallon and 1 gallon containers in my garage, tucked away under the workbench. One of each. The 2 gallon is for filling the lawn mower. Easy to handle and not spill gas. The 1 gallon has the 2-cycle mix for the weed whacker. The 5 gallon only comes out to replenish the others. As to your question, the simple answer is one at a time. No reason you have to transport all the gas at once. Though I don't see moving 4 5-gallons jugs in the trunk as an issue if they are reasonably secured and you don't travel far. But I'm less than half a mile from a gas station. If I had to travel more than a couple miles I'd probably carry one at a time. When I do the yearly half-mile trip with my 3 jugs it's a dedicated trip and I'm aware of what's in the trunk the entire time.
--Vic
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