Transporting 20 gallons of gas in your trunk and storing in your back yard in the open air question

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On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:51:13 -0500, Steve Barker

Rapid oxidation is the essential definition of explosion, Steve.
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

Here's what we used to do to people we didn't like:
1. Turn off the lights in their office. 2. Remove the florescent bulbs 3. Drill a 1/16" hole in the end of the tube (have spares - some will break). 4. With a funnel, dribble 1 tablespoon of gasoline into the tube. 5. Seal the hole with caulk. 6. Replace tube and leave.
Ever seen a volcano erupt downward?
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== More likely as Chief Execution Officer. ==
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On Jul 21, 11:28 am, snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

I sure thats 1 gallon of gasolene vapor not 1 ounce
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On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:50:44 -0700 (PDT), ransley

Nope. I have it exactly right.
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wrote in message

I sure thats 1 gallon of gasolene vapor not 1 ounce
reply: He's obviously not stating correct information. To say that a car cannot ignite from the force of a collision is plain ignorant. I saved a guy's life one time on the freeway. His car stalled, and he was rear-ended and boom, a fireball. We pulled him out through the driver's window.
I wish he would post the site where the equivalent of gasoline vapor to dynamite is stated by a professional.
I googled "gasoline vapor equals dynamite" and got this very knowledgeable answer that explains it all.
http://forums.howwhatwhy.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=weapons&Number=-277570
Too bad the other poster already knows everything, and won't allow any new information in, or information that is different than what he "thinks" he knows.
Steve
visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
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No, to say that a car CAN ignite from the force of a collision is ignorant. The force of a collision can put a hole in the gas tank and the force (or more precisely the aftermath while the force of the collision is dissipated) can cause a spark that ignites the vapors escaping from said tank. But a car can not ignite merely from the force of the collision. Otherwise you could BBQ about every day on the highways of America in multiple places.
--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
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wrote:

Yes, you are correct. But the poster seemed to say that gasoline does not ignite during a crash for any reason.
Steve
visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
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On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 06:04:30 -0700, Steve B wrote:

Autoignition Temperature: 833 degrees F / 444 degrees C
Gulf unleaded gasoline material data sheet (MDS) http://www.gulfoil.com/files/downloads/unleadedgasoline.PDF
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And your point is? That there is no ignition source during a vehicle crash?
What is the temperature from a spark from a electrical wire, a bursting tail light, or steel dragging on the pavement? Is it over 833? I would think it is less, but still, a very effective ignition source. Electrical fires after collisions are common, even if they are not the spectacular variety. There's lots of hot melting wires and sparks.
No?
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On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:23:24 -0700, Steve B wrote:

The point was to find whether gasoline, stored next to a fence, in approved 5-gallon containers, would ignite.
With an ignition temperature over 800 degrees F (MythBusters seems to think it's only 500 degrees F so I'm not sure why the descrepancy), it's not likely the gasoline will ever get hot enough, without a flame, to spontaneously erupt simply stored against the fence.
Stored in a vehicle truck bed or closed trunk (or in the vehicle gas tank for that matter), is a whole 'nother story because there could be leakage and sparks and friction after a crash. But, a crash is a crash and is a dangerous thing no matter what. If we're so worried about crashes, we'd never drive anywhere so we have to take that risk in hand.
Assume someone drives 15K miles a year, for 50 years, that's 750K miles in a lifetime. Assume in that lifetime, they have, how many? Maybe two, maybe three accidents? Let's say five accidents just to be aggressive.
That's an accident every 150K miles. But you don't store the gas in the trunk all the time; just to and from the gas station, which, for our sake, we'll call 15 miles round trip.
I'm not sure how to do statistics, but, 15 miles out of 150,000 miles seems like a percentage of about 0.01%. So, for any given fifteen miles that you're carrying gasoline in your trunk, you have a non-zero (but pretty small) chance of having an accident; and in that accident, you have a smaller (but still non-zero) chance of having it blow up on you.
All in all, unless someone comes up with better math, I think you have a better chance of having a heart attack than having your gas blow up on you on that one trip to the gas station.
Still, I can't find what the laws are for California for transportation. The Caltrans (DOT) site was miserable.
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The point is, gasoline could sit out there safely for a very long time. In the sun. And not ignite from ambient heat. And never even get close. There's no arguing that point.
Then humans enter the equation, and, well, you know humans. And then, there is lightning. And in California, fires of different types. And, in California, people who smoke all sorts of things that burn.
All in all, if I were the OP, I wouldn't have a problem with it, unless it's by the house or garage or outbuilding, and then the OP is being careless and might get caught with his pants down one day. From the neighbor's POV, I can see why he might be a little concerned. I don't know if we ever established if the gas and fence location was near any house or structure, or out in the middle of acres of desert. I wouldn't want to see twenty gallons of gas on the other side of my fence if it was between the two houses. You probably wouldn't want to, either.
There are lots and lots of variables here. But the one constant is that gas is very flammable, and extremely easy to ignite by several normal every day methods, including static electricity from a poofy sweater.
AND, when it catches fire, it's usually nasty and leaves a big mess.
And melts plastic sweaters on to people in a heartbeat.
Steve
visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
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On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:04:13 -0700, Steve B wrote:

I think we've answered one of the questions: Is it all that dangerous to keep 20 gallons of gas in the back yard?
We all know that there are plenty of dangerous things we keep around our house (I have 1,000 gallons of propane in a tank ten feet away from the house, for example), and gasoline in portable storage containers is one of those things nearly every one of us has in our garage or shed.
As far as I've read in this thread, the only limits I have in storage (besides common sense) are the ones from OSHA which I'm well within.
But I don't think we have been able to answer the second question: Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?
I'm searching the California codes as we speak and can't find anything telling me how many 5-gallon gas jugs we can carry in the trunk of a car: http://law.justia.com/california/codes/veh.html
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On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:16:45 -0700, Bill Murphy

How many times in the last 20 years or so has a police officer asked if you were carrying to many gallons of gas in the trunk?
None I bet. Cal DOT is not out there on the roads trying to capture you.
Moonshine haulin' is another story.
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Largely because the taxes are already paid on the gas. They do have their priorities you know. (g).
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and name it after the IRS.
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This is the kind of thing I think of when I see Swedish police (or whoever that was) using a harpoon into the trunk to stop cars. Oh sorry, Finland: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/dave/barry012207.php3
During the first gas crisis, my brother bought a truckload of 6 gallon containers, which we filled and kept for his business in a shed attached to the back of the building. It was in a commercial building next to an elementary school that backed up to an apartment complex carport. A few years later, some drug dealers bombed a car in the carport, burning down the shed. Or so I was told. I still use one. Container that is.
When I was in college, I remember a professor died and they had to call in a bomb squad robot when they found some old reagent grade peroxide on a shelf. It seems some materials form long, unstable chains when left standing for a long time, becoming extremely explosive like the old cartoon nitroglycerin. Gas just turns to varnish, I can tell you from experience.
jg -- @home.com is bogus. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/jul/20/border-arrests-land-cache-weapons-cash /
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In my state, and I think they quoted me federal law, you can have no more than a 125 gallon tank within close range to a structure. That is why the tanks are 124 gallons. I know, I went to buy one on a kitchen remodel. That is why we did not go with the big tank - distance. If you have that much stored that close, you are in violation. You should check on that before a concerned neighbor does.
Steve
visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
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Steve B wrote:

every house in my neighborhood has one larger than 125 quite close to the house (there is no nat gas in the area and it's out in the sticks). i have a 500g tank buried about 20ft from my garage. it was inspected by both the town and fire dept when the house was built.
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wrote

When I went to ask about this, they said that if it was less than 125, it could be put right next to the house. After that, if depended on the size as to how far it had to be away from the house. It all depends on your local code, anyway.
Steve
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wrote:

But how can that be? We've seen expert testimony from several individuals here that it would be an impossibility.
I'm confused ..........
Steve ;-)
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