Transporting 20 gallons of gas in your trunk and storing in your back yard in the open air question

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On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:21:22 -0700, Roy wrote:

Stating a law without a reference isn't useful in this particular case.
While I'm sure waste contaminated gasoline would be considered a hazardous waste (and a flammable liquid at the same time), I doubt usable gasoline is considered hazardous waste, per se, in most states.
But you never know. For example, it's illegal in California to use brass plumbing that has ANY lead in it (yet all other 49 states seem to have no problem with that).
As another example, it's illegal in California to use chlorinated brake cleaners; while almost ever other state has no problem with that.
My point is that laws clearly vary by state: - It's illegal in some states to get out of your car to refuel or pay - It's illegal in some states to put a GPS in the middle of the windshield - It's illegal in some states to use a radar detector - It's illegal in some states to get your OBDII DTC codes scanned for free etc.
Since laws involving storage and transportation of gasoline are almost certain to vary among the states, a specific California law is what I'm looking for (since I live in California). I'll keep looking for the text of the law but I was hoping there was a single lawyer on this forum who might tell us how to find the text of the law.
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On 7/23/2010 8:23 AM, Bill Murphy wrote:

I don't remember the exact web site I picked that from but a google search on "hazardous waste transportation california 15 gallons" will find multiple references such as
http://www.lessismore.org/Programs/hshold_hazwaste_cmplte.html
http://www.ci.burbank.ca.us/index.aspx?pageG8
http://www.smgov.net/Departments/OSE/Categories/Hazardous_Materials/Hazardous_Waste_Center_for_Small_Business.aspx
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Only in Oregon and New Jersey, those are the only states that still mandate Full Service.
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Except that usable gasoline is not "hazardous waste." Since the gasoline is not "waste" but is being stored for future use (i.e. consumption) it doesn't qualify as hazardous waste. It would qualify as "flammable liquid" however. If it was mopped up contaminated and unusable gasoline - gasoline which got mixed with something else like paint thinner, or was so dirty, say from spilling with sand or dirt that it could not be recovered by simple filtering - *then* it would qualify as hazardous waste. Since it can be used, as is, out of the storage container and is suitable for its intended use, it's not waste.
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On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 06:42:57 -0700 (PDT), Paul Robinson

hazMAT
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Bill Murphy wrote:

Hi, First are you using legal explosion proof container to increase safety margin? Do you smell gas when your car is parked in the garage? Better be safe than sorry applies here.
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On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:56:49 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

To answer your question, I never smell fumes. I'm using those CARB EPA Blitz gasoline prisons. The gas has been tested to not lose an ounce (they test loss by weight) even after a year in the sun.
The article referenced says it's safe to store small amounts of gasoline in the garage or other well ventilated shelter.
It doesn't say anything about transport.
Any ideas what the laws are on transport?
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Bill Murphy wrote:

Hi, I often use surplus army jerry can filled with gas, propane tak say going camping. I never keep them in a space like confined trunk. If you have to keep them in the trunk while in transit, I'd keep the lid open ajar for venting in case. Worst thing happened to me was overfilled propane tank started hising releasing gas.
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Your state or local laws may vary
<http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eopsterminal&L=8&L0=Home&L1=Public+Safety+Agencies&L2=Massachusetts+Department+of+Fire+Services&L3 partment+of+Fire+Services&L4=Office+of+the+State+Fire+Marshal&L5=Fire+Prevention&L6=Office+of+the+State+Fire+Marshal+Advisories&L7 05+Advisories&sidops&b=terminalcontent&fs_osfm_fire_prevention_adv_av_gas_transportation&csidops>
From: Stephen D. Coan, State Fire Marshal We are receiving many calls in our office with regard to the transportation of gasoline in vehicles and whether the use of a "gas-caddy" is legal in the Commonwealth. As a result of these calls, I am issuing this information.
In accordance with 527 CMR 8.21(5), .gasoline or other flammable petroleum product may be transported without a permit in any open vehicle or in a compartment of a closed vehicle separated from passengers, in total quantity not to exceed 21 gallons, provided such flammable liquid is contained in approved containers with no individual container exceeding seven gallons capacity. We request that this information be shared with gas stations in your area. Further, the use of "gas-caddys" for the transportation of gasoline and/or diesel fuel is not allowed in the Commonwealth. The use of "gas-caddys" is confined to on-site storage at permitted locations
New York State Safety Bulletin Index - Transporting Gasoline and Diesel Fuel (Code: SB-96-2, Date: 6/10/96) Transportation of fuel shall be accomplished by portable fuel cans with a maximum capacity of 5 gallons each, or cargo fuel tanks. All containers shall be properly labeled.
Gasoline shall only be transported in approved 5 gallon portable gas cans, with a limit of four (4) cans per vehicle.
Portable five (5) gallon cans transported on any Department vehicle or equipment shall be fastened in a vented box, or lashed to the body of the vehicle with web straps, using eyebolts through the side of the body backed up by a 3 inch x 3 inch x 3/16 inch steel backing plate. There shall be two eyebolt anchor points for each can.
Only steel or aluminum Type I or Type II safety cans shall be used to transport gasoline.
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Ed Pawlowski wrote: ...

...
So you can't take gas home to mow the yard if you have only a SUV or other trunk-less vehicle in MA...
Nanny has struck again.
--
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Bill Murphy wrote: ...

While specifics vary as Ed posted, generally sotoo 20 gal is legal in DOT-rated transport containers. It's a relatively low hazard but like anything else, "stuff happens" and in high traffic areas or other reasons for higher than normal accident probabilities one should be duly aware.
OTOH, for farm use I keep a 150 gal diesel and 40 gal gasoline transport tank in the pickup as we have done for 50 yrs or so. Compared to the 1500 gal anhydrous ammonia tank tagging along behind, the fuel risk is quite benign... :)
As for the original question on storage, I'd try to make a shaded location for the storage if you have no shed to minimize the chances of lifting the safety relief on a hot day of a full can but other than that I'd have no particular concern, either.
--
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On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:15:41 -0500, dpb wrote:

These are the new Blitz enviroflow cans. I don't think they have a safety release.
I guess they must, but they've been tested to not leak one bit subject to the hottest temperatures possible out in the sun for a year and they didn't lose an ounce (they measure gas loss by weight, not volume since it expands so much).
I always fill to the fill line and no more so I think there is no release (which I know is contrarian thinking) engineered into these cans.
I guess if someone artificially heats them to something over 200 degrees, they might have a release, but as far as I know, the tests show they hold their gas (the problem is getting it out, not keeping it in).
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On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:04:40 -0700, Bill Murphy wrote:

I looked on the California DOT site and searched for hours. http://www.dot.ca.gov /
Even a genius couldn't find what you're looking for on the California DOT web site.
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If you are referring to 5 gallon metal jerry can's, that's about all you can do for them. I would put them in the shade, though. Leaving any breather opening is an invitation for condensation from the can "breathing" by getting alternately hot and cold. I would make an effort to "hide" these from this neighbor, or move them to an area that does not abut his property. These aren't inherently dangerous or unstable, but scary. Gasoline combusts at +260C. It would be damn hard to reach that temperature. But, any spark, slight brush fire, or lightning strike could be disastrous.
I was standing in a screen porch area of my house one time, and lightning hit the pecan tree out side. It came down the tree, jumped to my truck, blew off diagonal hubcaps on my truck, jumped to a cow, killing it, fried the dryer I was standing beside, and killed a TV in another room. So, I can say, after having lightning strike within 10 feet of me then and three other times in my life, **it happens.
Is this spot on the fence away from structures, or out in the country, a hundred feet away from structures? Or is it in a neighborhood, close to the houses?
For me, it would almost be better to keep it in the garage. And do you use enough to justify keeping 20 gallons on hand? Do you have a backup power generator that you need to keep a supply for? And what about Stabil? I know it's a hassle, but how about filling up the night before the ride?
I used to poo poo the stories of gas catching fire at filling stations, then I saw videos, and then a guy two aisles over at the gas station did it. Man, was that scary. So, the guy does have some valid concerns.
And if you DO have a spark and a gas fire/explosion either in your car, your yard, or in your garage, it's going to be nasty, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, IT MIGHT NOT BE COVERED BY YOUR INSURANCE DUE TO IMPROPER STORAGE OF HAZARDOUS MATERIALS. Whatever the hell that means. They do have fires at gas storage yards all the time in the industry, so essentially, there's no safe way to handle this stuff, and when it's your turn to have an "event", it's just your turn. You can argue all you want that they were in OSHA MSHA DOT approved containers, but the fact that there was a fire proves right there that something was not right.
I wouldn't want my neighbor to put twenty gallons along my fence. Especially if it is within 100 feet of any structures of mine. **it does happen. He may be a royal PITA, but he does have somewhat of a point. And you have to live next door to him. I also personally wouldn't carry that much gas in the trunk. Too many idiots on the road, and if they rear-end you, it's going to be nasty. Or there's just a spark from the lights ..............
Steve
visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
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On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:30:14 -0700, "Steve B"
gas in your trunk and storing in your back yard in the open air question:

+1 on that.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

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Local grocery store has advantage card program, every month or two i earn a free tank of gas up to 30 gallons.
I ALWAYS get 30 gallons my van holds near 20 but i dont like to run it low, gas pump in tank, the gasoline cools the pump. so i try to never need more than 17 galllons.
which leaves 15 gallons or less to bring home.
i buy gas at nearby station and drive directly home. gasoline goes in my shed it has power but its well vantilated.and in a fenced in yard.
i have stored over 30 gallons in those 5 gallon plastic cans.
you could use one of those tiny yard storage buildings or a garbage can over a couple of 5 gallon cans but a weight on top.
life is full of risks its imposible to avoid all of them, far better to not stress so much.....
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-1 on that.
It's been PROVEN time and again that those "gasoline explosions" you see in movies are not realistic. They are staged using pyrotechnics.
The expose of Dateline NBC's "expose" of the 73-87 GM truck tanks is a classic example.
In a collision that breaches the fuel tank, the fuel dribbles out on the ground and nothing happens. The fumes are too concentrated to ignite, and they quickly dissipate to where there aren't enough fumes to ignite.
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On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:28:44 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@rochester.rr.com wrote:

I once witnessed a 36 foot cabin cruiser with twin gasoline inboard engines, blow up and burn completely to the waterline in a matter of about 10 minutes from start to finish. It exploded in a fireball worthy of any James Bond movie.
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On 7/21/2010 10:55 AM, snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

it did not explode. Not with just gasoline. You may have witnessed a rapid burning, but not an explosion.
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Steve Barker
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On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:52:59 -0500, Steve Barker

Then why did the two people onboard land 30 feet away in the water with broken bones?
(they survived)
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