Tool recommendation: Fastening to concrete block walls

Page 1 of 2  

Next phase of my project will involve a lot of fastening to concrete block walls.
Such as copper pipe straps, PVC pipe straps, rigid electrical conduit straps, furring strips, formwork for patching, and some miscellaneous Simpson's angles and brackets. Not a few, but hundreds.
I have a hammer drill, I can drill into the block wall, then use Tapcons for some of those, but it would be slow. I have seen some actuating tools that shoots a nail into the block wall and it's flushed with the surface. I don't know much about it and whether it is worth to buy a tool to do this? Any other tools that may fit the task at hand?
Thanks,
MC
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:30:13 -0500, "MiamiCuse"

The tools that shoot nails are great for attaching framing to concrete. Make sure you wear hearing protection because in a confined space they're loud. However, you can't remove the fastener without destroying the framing. Generally that's no problem.
If you plan on using that to fasten clips, clamps and straps for plumbing, electrical and other stuff I'm not sure I'd go that route. I don't know how easy it would be to hit the hole in the clip or whatever. Plus if you had to make a change later on it would be more difficult than removing a screw or two.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

HUNDREDS of holes blasted or drilled into a block wall ??? I hope they are filled with concrete and not hollow....Is it possible to attach wood runners to the wall and then run everything on the wood ???
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

not hundreds of holes on a block wall, but hundreds of holes on all the block walls. I have about 500 linear feet of block walls to work with so if I attach a say a 1x2 furring strip every 24" along it, that is 250 strips of 1x2 and if I put 8 screws along each strip that would be 2000 screws. Plus straps for electrical conduits, PVC pipes, copper supply pipes, places I have to reinforce with 1x boards such as behind medicine cabinets, pedestal sink, cabinets etc...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I have all these tools. Stay with the tapcons. A good SDS hammer drill and a battery impact gun to drive the Tapcons. Fast, accurate, good "bite" with the fasteners. PAT (powder actuated fasteners) are great and indispensable in some circumstances, but getting a consistent depth and locating the gun nail on the clip or whatever can be very problematic.
I do also like Nail-ins, see the bottom of this page: http://www.powers.com/mechanical.html
1/4" hole and a hammer. In hollow block make sure you have the right length - short.
--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:46:58 -0600, DanG wrote:

I always had problems with that small of a drill bit lasting more than 3-4 holes. On the last such job I dipped the bit in oil after every hole and the bit lasted the whole job.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
You must not have used a quality SDS hammer drill bit. I am very abusive to the bits - usually get several years out of them. This is true even with the Tapcon size lead bits in hard concrete. In block they will last forever. Quenching a hot carbide tip in water or oil is NOT a good idea.
--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yeah, "3-4 holes" to a "whole job" seems like quite a jump. But, presumably the oil would keep the tip cooler to begin with. But, thermal shock is a concern, so if proper immersion is not possible, mebbe best to just go dry. True in machining, as well -- a variety of cutting bits forego coolant for that very reason.
"Proper immersion" would be easiest in a vertical "down" hole -- hardest would be an overhead vertical hole.
And likely all moot in cinder block anyway.
--
EA




>
> --
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 07:14:39 -0600, DanG wrote:

What brand do you use? I have tried a large variety of brands and none of them held up. After about 3-4, maybe 5 holes the tip comes out red hot and melted.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Qunch more frequently? Every half a hole? I may be all wet on this one (not sorry about the double meaning). But sometimes the answer needs some creative thinking.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:37:11 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I quenched it in oil after every hole last time and I was able to complete the job, perhaps 100 or more holes, and the bit is still running. Read my earlier post.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Read the posts? I can't do that. It's Usenet.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:30:13 -0500, "MiamiCuse"

Look at Hilti. HD sells a single shot for cheap(?). The trick is the color code on the rounds. Each color is specific for the powder load.
http://www.us.hilti.com/holus/modules/prcat/prca_navigation.jsp?OID=-17000
Cheaper than "hundreds" of Tap cons (use where needed)...
And wear ear muffs and eye protection.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
MiamiCuse wrote:

Your problem here is block walls, with solid concrete you have a lot of options and the powder actuated nailers (PAFT) work great, but with block walls you have to nail only on the solid sections or you can blow out the web and leave a big hole.
If you want to use a PAFT, rent a Hilti DX36M from 'Depot (I own one), among other features, the Hilti PAFTs are adjustable pressure so you can dial the pressure to a point in between two different color loads, something you can't do with the basic guns.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

MC-
With a decent rotary hammer (Milwaukee Falcon or small Hilti) drilling a hole & driving a Tapcon won't be all that bad. If you already have the tools it might be better to forgo the new tool.
Ramset makes some cool "hybrid fasteners".......powder driven pin with a specialty strap or clip pre-attached. Or you can shoot a pin with a threaded end (not sure if they come smaller than 1/4")
The pre-assembled hybrids would work for just about everything except copper straps.
Driving a powder actuated pin through a "separate" strap hole would make me a bit nervous.
cheers Bob
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

MC-
With a decent rotary hammer (Milwaukee Falcon or small Hilti) drilling a hole & driving a Tapcon won't be all that bad. If you already have the tools it might be better to forgo the new tool.
Ramset makes some cool "hybrid fasteners".......powder driven pin with a specialty strap or clip pre-attached. Or you can shoot a pin with a threaded end (not sure if they come smaller than 1/4")
The pre-assembled hybrids would work for just about everything except copper straps.
Driving a powder actuated pin through a "separate" strap hole would make me a bit nervous.
==================================================== Make sure the rotary hammer is about 5,000 bpm -- will go through cinder block like butter. I'm a big fan of the Bosch pistol-grip Bulldog -- SDS bits. But any 5,000 bpm tool should do. D-handle tools are a little clumsy for small holes, the pistol grip is a lot more convenient.
I agree with the reservations about a separate powder-actuated hole -- alignment and depth can be dicey. The threaded-end studs are neat, but I'll bet pretty expensive. I used to shoot those in iron columns!
Dipping a carbide bit in oil seems like a good idea! Water would work as well, if you could keep a flow going. Keep in mind that you can also sharpen those carbide bits very easily -- real quick on a green wheel, quick-enough on a gray wheel.
I would find out what would be ultimately cheaper -- a tapcon or a sheet metal screw and plastic anchor.
A separate rotary hammer and drill (for screwing) would make the job go quick, if installing hole-by-hole.
--
EA






cheers
Bob



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:04:46 -0500, Existential Angst wrote:

No, water will not give the same results. Oil tempers the bit and water destroys it. Machinist class.

White wheel, not grey. Again, machinist class.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Remind me not to take the machinist class you took. What machinist do you know who tempers carbide? What traditional heat treater can temper carbide??
Water can be an effective cutting fluid, particularly on SS. For cinderblock/SDS bits, the issue is mostly cooling.

Remind me not to......... You can sharpen carbide on anything, the Q is, how fast. Traditionally, carbide is sharpened on a green wheel. Most people have gray (aluminum oxide/resin) wheels. I just happen to have a green wheel mounted right next to a white wheel, and I can tell you that the white wheel pert near disintegrates on carbide -- although it will remove material, but not much better than a gray wheel, which lasts an *orders* of magnitudes longer than a white wheel, and proly a single order of magnitude better than a green wheel.
--
EA

>
>>
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:51:40 -0500, Existential Angst wrote:

No, it tempers the steel it is attached to.

Who is talking about cutting fluid? I am talking about cooling the bit after drilling each hole. It is one thing to keep a bit cool with water/coolant mix and another to cool a hot bit down after dry drilling with water.

The machine shop I worked in only used white stones for carbide and cobalt tools. Maybe a different white stone? Grey was never used.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:51:40 -0500, Existential Angst wrote:

BTW, plain water is NEVER used as a coolant except in an emergency This job needs to get done now and we stupidly ran out of coolant. Even then they will continue to use bad coolant over plain water. They use a water-based coolant to protect the parts from corrosion. If you only work with SS that is a possibility, but who uses only SS? It is run through a catch pan of some sort, filtered, and reused. Nobody would be stupid enough to change it out just for a SS job.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.