Tool Purchase Ethics?

[PaPaPeng]

I am developing my basement that will have a kitchenette (1) , full bath (2.5), a separate vanity only nook (1) and a wet bar (1), that is five and a half sets of H+C water plumbing. I love the flex tube water pipes (PEC?) for running the water lines. These tubes are secured to the fixtures by a crimp ring that requires a special crimp tool. The tool costs $60+ the last time I checked. Renting one for the day is something like $20 and the clock is ticking on overtime. I react poorly to this kind of stress. Instead of working faster I freeze up.

My idea is to buy the tool first, take a week to do a proper plumbing job, then return the tool for a refund. The ruse "free use" is obvious and I am not too comfortable with it. What's your take on this? The alternative is to use stainless steel hose rings. Will this have enough holding strength to keep the tube+fixtures securely in place?

[Rick Brandt]

Why not just rent the tool and then when you are returning it you can bash the clerk's head in and leave without paying?

Idiot.

[Wayne Whitney]

This is unethical. Instead of returning it, sell the tool on ebay and recoup 75%-100% of the purchase price.

Cheers, Wayne

[HeyBub]

Kitchenette, full bath, wet bar, etc. = $5-10k and you're concerned over $60?

Have someone quote you a price for all the pipes including the tool, that way you won't be so distressed.

Or sell the tool afterward.

[RicodJour]

Hold up a liquor store and have more than enough money to buy the tool.

R

[hallerb]

I look at EVERY TOOL PURCHASE as a investment for the future.

Renti the tool 3 times and you paid for it.

Just BUY the thing and its yours forever:)

[James "Cubby" Culbertson]

It's this type of thinking that drives prices up for those of us with a bit of integrity. Buy the damn tool and then sell it on ebay.

[Bob]

Aside from the totally unethical part of returning a used tool and screwing the next person who buys it, look at the economic part. You spend time and money buying and returning the tool. You'll surely need it again in the future. Do you intend to buy and return one every time you need it. If you have a leak and you can't get another tool, and have to hire a plumber, you're out more than $60. Don't be cheap ass, but the tool and keep it.

[Deni]

I have to agree with James Cubby Culbertson. If you are going to go that far to get the flex tubing without fittings on the ends, then buy the tool, and sell it on ebay. Someone out there that does this work for a living just might be looking for this tool and will look on ebay.

Also, if you are that into doing home projects, what is to say that you won't have a use for this tool again in the future?

[Christian Fox]

There are options that you haven't considered. Check on eBay or a local pawn shop and see if you can buy the tool used. It'll work just the same as one bought new, and if you don't need it afterward, you can sell it and recoup almost 100% of the cost, without the necessity of returning the item and wasting the store's time and money.

Buying an item with the full intent of returning it after using it is just plain unethical, and drives prices up for people who aren't trying to screw the system.

[Art]

WHy not just steal the tools? That would be just about as ethical.

[Toller]

You are hoping that a few lowlifes will tell you that it is fine to do. Then you can go ahead with it, telling yourself that other people said it is okay. Right?

That is very very sad.

[Ric Shaw]

Why not use copper tubing? The only tool you need is a soldering torch which you might already have or can buy new for around $10 or $12 and it is a handy tool to have around the house for other things as well. Don't be a cheapskate. If you need a tool, decide whether it is more beneficial for you to rent it or buy it and then do it. Nevermind returning it under false pretences after you have used it. I have customers that try tricks like that with me, but they will need my services down the road when they have problems with the product they have purchased and then they don't get the services and are shocked to learn why. Ric

[Oren]

It's not an idea of yours, it's a plan. You are looking for someone to sign off on your bullshit and I'm not feeling it. It's selfishness at it's best...Rent or buy the friggin tool. You will not find a PEX crimper in the average store and good plumbing store will be on to your crap. I guess you might also want a refund on the crimp rings you hose during your freezing spell!

Oren

"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes."

[J.A. Michel]

If you're asking, then you know it's wrong. Buy the tool and use it, sell it on ebay when you're done. 60 bucks ain't squat when you roll it on to the cost of your project. I have recently spent about $800.00 on various tools that I need for a large upcoming project. The investment in the right tool for the job is peanuts compared to hiring the work done. And, yes, I plan on keeping all the tools I bought and using them for years to come.

[marks542004]

I would run in most of your fixtures with the proper hoses and shutoff valves using common PVC or CPVC fittings.

The pex tube stuff is really good for service runs and a lot of the places that sell it will crimp the fittings for you.

Buying and returning the tool is low. Just like buying a suit for a wedding and returning it after the event.

If you install the fixtures and cut all the pipe runs you should easily crimp on connectors in a day. So rent the thing.

[m Ransley]

You sound like the kind of person that fakes insurance claims and tries to pay less for contracted work for no real reason, go steal one, whats the difference, maybe we will be lucky and you will get caught

[mm]

Through all of history, few people had a kitchenette in addition to their kitchen. And I'm sure your kitchen is nicer than most had. And you want a wet bar, even though everything that accomplishes can be done with a cabinet and the kitchenette sink, or the original kitchen sink. And then you *love* flex tube water pipes. You just want everthing don't you, even though you feel you can't afford it.

This strikes me as like saying, I can afford to go to that really fancy restaurant, as long as I don't tip.

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let me know if you have posted also.

[Bob]

To me he sounds like a troll.

[PaPaPeng]

I already have more tools than I can shake a stick at. I will never use the crimper again. The best solution so far is to look around for a used one on the local swap shop or something like that and then resell it the same way. Buying on eBay and shipping that tool across the country isn't economical. Yes 60 bucks is something to me - 2 weeks groceries for example. I'm retired on a very limited income. Fortunately I am a pretty good handyman and can fix just about anything. That idea about buying and returning the tool came from another customer and discussed infront of a HD salesman. The HM guy said it is done all the time. The packaging looked it. Didn't faze him.