Too many Wires! Help with new wall outlet

[hah]

Connect the red wire to ground :-)

[RBM]

I think doing it the Canadian way combined with our codes would require expensive double pole GFCI breakers, or messy, crowded boxes using

12-2-2 wiring. I'm not sure what their receptacle spacing is, but in the US. Having a receptacle at every slice of counter 12" and wider, and one every four feet, certainly give you enough locations to plug in. As long as the electrician installs ample circuits for the size of the kitchen, and it's usage, there shouldn't be any problems. I do prefer running at least one 12/3 loop to all counter outlets, so I at least have both circuits at each location, so I can change the outlets depending upon usage.

[RBM]

That's funny, no one would have known what the blown fuse was going to, because everything worked. I typically get the service call where the homeowner changed all the outlets in the bedroom or living room, and now the switch doesn't work anymore.

[krw]

My father wired our house that way when it was built in '59 (one color, though). I doing the same to my basement so I can plug in a power tool and a shop vac on separate circuits and work anywhere. There was only one outlet in eight rooms (>2000ft^2).

[bud--]

The one I remember was blowing fuses, maybe one of 2 fuses, in a kitchen. There were split wired receptacles and one of the break-off-tabs was not removed (coulda been original or replacement). I think someone noticed a fuse was blown. All the receptacles would work with the blown fuse.

[clare]

half of a

with both

That's not referred to as a "split circuit" or a "split receptacle" around here. It's a half switched receptacle.

[clare]

news: [e-mail]:

repeat that

It's NOT a mistake. I ALWAYS state it is code "in Canada". If code in the USA is inferior it's not my fault. So go suck on another pickle, sourpuss.

[clare]

nuts off safely, so your test meter has bare wires to contact.

telling if you got the right breaker. You won't know when the power is off.

than one breaker. It's not impossible that the red and black wires are on separate circuits. They shouldn't be, but still could be.

Quite possibly - but code "in Canada" is 20 amp split circuits in the Kitchen Counter area - and therefore #12 copper as well.

You can also use 20 amp cicuits for everthing in a single bathroom, or receptacles only in multiple bathrooms - but bathroom circuits can ONLY supply bathroom loads. If you have bathroom receptacles in multiple bathrooms on a single 20 amp circuit, the lighting needs to be on another separate circuit supplying only bathroom lighting - a 15 amp circuit. Some other situations can also use 20 amp circuits - and long run 15 amp circuits can also use #12 copper.. 15 amp circuits on aluminum also require #12. - but the OP stated he's got #12 copper.

[clare]

Possible, yes, but not legal to have 2 circuits in the same single box unless they are tied breakers in residential code "in Canada.". Not sure what American code allows - generally American code allows some things that would be unthinkable under Canadian code.

[bud--]

nuts off safely, so your test meter has bare wires to contact.

of telling if you got the right breaker. You won't know when the power is off.

than one breaker. It's not impossible that the red and black wires are on separate circuits. They shouldn't be, but still could be.

The OP also talked about a " 'rubberized cap' of some sort". Wires may or may not be #12.

[clare]

nuts off safely, so your test meter has bare wires to contact.

of telling if you got the right breaker. You won't know when the power is off.

than one breaker. It's not impossible that the red and black wires are on separate circuits. They shouldn't be, but still could be.

Then again, they may not be black red and white - or even wires. The whole box may be just a halucination..

[Chip C]

ff the ground and about 2"x4" made from that hard thick brown plastic that seems to be the standard for all the boxes in this house and looks to be na iled to a stud.

all, also a couple of feet off from the corner.

e would want an outlet to be if they wanted to plug in a lamp. As I said, it's mate down the wall is controlled by a wall switch that is directly acr oss the room. No ceiling fixtures.

I think you have something that's really quite common for dens and living r ooms: a series of outlets in which one or more can be controlled by a wall switch. In most/some/all areas, the Code allows such a scheme as an alterna tive to a switched ceiling fixture. (In practice, someone always manages to plug the TV into the switched outlet.)

One of the hot wires (I'd have used the red, but it would be at the discret ion of whoever installed it) will be switched. The other will be live all t he time. Both will be on the same circuit (breaker/fuse) and so there will not be any voltage difference between them.

If every outlet in the room is daisy-chained with both the red and black, t hen any of them could be reworked to be switched or not, by connecting it t o the other wire. Often, the outlets "downstream" of the one they wanted sw itched will be wired without the switched wire.

You could connect the hot side of your new outlet to either the red or the black, depending on whether you wanted it switched or not. You could even c ut the linking tab on the new outlet, connect red to one half and black to the other, and have only one of the two plugs switched. Would save you the trouble of figuring out which wire is which! (This *looks* like the "split" or "edison" circuit of which others speak, but isn't, since both halves of the outlet are on the same leg and the same breaker.)

These schemes are well documented in all of the glossy D-I-Y electrical boo ks at the big box stores, along with techniques for adding an outlet to the m.

Kind of odd why someone would remove an outlet and cap it off like that. An y hints as to why?

Chip C Toronto

[Doug Miller]

[e-mail] wrote in news: [e-mail]:

4ax.com:

that

No, you don't "ALWAYS state" that -- for instance, in the comment I objected to above.

Fact is, you usually DON'T state that. Which is why it's been pointed out to you

-- more than once -- that you make the mistake of assuming that what's Code in Canada is Code everywhere. It's not.

[Doug Miller]

[e-mail] wrote in news: [e-mail]:

one half of a

-- with both

"Split receptacle" clearly implies *only* that the two halves of the duplex are independent. It does *not* imply that it's an Edison circuit.

[clare]

you -- more than

What do you not understand about "Code in Canada " which is the only place I even mentioned "code".

[clare]

news: [e-mail]:

one half of a

-- with both

independent. It

Forget your burr about Code and Canada. Common useage both sides of the border by "electricians" - a "split" is on 2 different circuits.

- this one (above) meets your definition.

Just the first 7 references on Google that did not specifically refer to Canada (like a .ca domain)

[hrhofmann]

confused than enlightened.  Sorry, I did say I don't know much.

hat is, as it could feed other outlets.

toggle light switch on the wall, if that is any help.

ake off insulating caps and then turn on the power and use my meter to chec k  -- one-by-one -- any current between the red and white wire.

ent is 220 -- or the house blows up? ;>

Or I guess I can check and then report back with results.

You are checking for voltage, not current, THe fact that you refer to current rather than voltage tells us you are pretty much a novice.

[Doug Miller]

[e-mail] wrote in news: [e-mail]:

you -- more than

What do you not understand about "you usually DON'T state that"?

[Doug Miller]

[e-mail] wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I don't have a "burr about Code and Canada". I have a problem with *you* repeatedly making blanket statements that apply only on your side of the border. Or only in your head.

[trader4]

repeatedly making

I agree with you. Here in the states a "split receptacle" means only that. That the two receptacles are not connected together. I have a bunch of them in my house. All are on the same circuits. One is switched, the other is not and is live all the time. It also appears that the mystery box in this thread is exactly that too. Why would anyone pull two circuits to do that? Do they actually do that in Canada?