To Roundup or not Roundup

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Kurt Ullman wrote:

I'd plant wild flowers.
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The wife wants grass. So grass we get (grin)
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wrote:

Then you should also let her mow the grass.. :-))
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In typed:

Try reading the instructions on the product!
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Exactly. I was recently looking to buy one of the propane based torches for a slightly different application and was amazed at how many people think they are a good solution for weeds in pavers, driveway cracks, etc. I agree with you, a torch will burn the top of the plant and in many cases the roots survive and the plant comes back. Compare that approach to using one of the extended duration vegetation killers, eg Roundup extended, which not only kills the whole thing, but prevents any new seeds from germinating for a couple months.
I was looking for the propane torch to burn off the remaining short DEAD weeds in a rock bed after killing them first with Roundup.
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Plus torches are crap on green weeds - they work fine on dried/brown weeds.
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On 6/27/2011 9:21 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:

I didn't see "little" in the OP; how little is "little"? A 10'x10' might be little in a large lawn, but it's getting big when you start cultivating....Whatever means you use to kill grass/weeds now, you still need to deal with sod (roots) before you smooth the soil and plant seeds. You will also have some weed seed that continues to germinate for two to three years, but is relatively easy to deal with later. In most areas, this is not ideal time of year to plant grass seed, but is doable if you mulch lightly with straw and water lightly and often. Roundup now will kill most of what is presently growing, but leaves tilling to be done to get rid of roots/sod before you seed, and by the time all present growth is "dead", you likely will have more weed seed germinated. So, what I'm trying to say is that tilling, chopping, pulling out most roots by hand, then raking and seeding without Roundup will probably be as practical as using Roundup. Sod might be more practical than seeding, but still must be cared for until it takes root; not very expensive for DIY.
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On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:38:14 -0400, " snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net"

before either sodding or seeding, or you will be fighting a constant battle with weeds.
"burn" it down with roundup, then till and remove as much rood matter as possible by raking - wait for it to green up again (water it if it doesn't rain) then hit it with roundup again to kill it, and till it again - removing as much root material as possible. If it greened up relatively quickly first time around, you might want to let it go one more time around before seeding. If you are sodding, a pre-emergent herbicide in the tilled soil as you rake it down just before laying the sod would be good insurance, as it will kill any seeds still in the soil, without affecting the root system of the sod.
I didn't have that option when I renovated my yard a few years back because I chose to seed instead of sod.
Penny wise and pound foolish.....
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Will pre-emergent even work in those conditions? All the ones I've used were to be applied to the surface, not placed underground.
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wrote:

applied they act on surface seeds directly, and on sub-surface seeds by wash-down.
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Another method I've heard is to till the ground, then cover it with *clear* plastic over the early part of the summer. The light encourages the weeds to germinate then the heat cooks them. Grass can then be planted in the late summer or early fall, which is usually the best time to do it.
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plastic. But it should be left on more than "a few days"unless you are in a terrible hurry. I hate Monsanto enough that I beat myself up every time I use Roundup to kill weeds in a very rocky, hard-to-reach area. In fact, next time I'll just use boiling water and see how THAT works out.
You didn't say how big the area is. That might have a bearing on how much black plastic you have to buy. Others have suggested newspaper held down with rocks. As a scientific experiment, you could run a test with 1/2 area black plastic, 1/2 area thick newspaper w/rocks. Should be quite interesting.
Also consider posting on <rec.gardens> - knowledgeable folks.
HB
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wrote:

Not if its clear. It'll let them sprout then bake 'em good.
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wrote:

I understand what you were responding to, but *you* didn't specify black. The trick works very well with *clear* plastic. Black, not so much. Seeds will outlast you if they remain dormant.
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OK, so you don't like the term "bake". Fact is, sun beating down on black plastic overheats the area underneath, killing vegetation. Alsoblocks direct sun (which newspapers would also do), thus "stopping photosynthesis".
HB
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