Timer valve to delay toilet refill?

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One person [*] in our household will from time to time use too much paper, clogging the toilet -- and then flush it two or three times, with the predictable result, which the rest of us are getting tired of cleaning up.
Is there some sort of timer valve available, that would prevent the toilet tank from refilling for, say, fifteen or twenty minutes after a flush?
[* -- this is an 87 year old with Alzheimer's; while education is obviously the most desirable solution, it equally obviously ain't gonna happen]
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On 6/1/11 6:20 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

Could you just put a fixed orifice in the supply line? Maybe something with a 1/8" or 1/16" hole?
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On Jun 1, 7:20 am, snipped-for-privacy@example.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Sorry about your troubles. I admire your perseverance, I'm pretty sure I could not cope. Family member or not I'd be reviewing the local assisted care facilities.
Turn the valve almost off. You may have to experiment a little. I've always wondered why sinks and tubs have an overflow drain but toilets don't. How hard would it be?
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Try biodegradable tp. It can be found in any camping supply store. It breaks down really quick and would be hard to clog a toilet.
Or...
Limit the amount of tp available
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Not a good idea, as that may create worse problems.
I'm caring for my 84 yr old Alheimers mother and she has problems thoroughly cleaning herself. Improper cleaning can lead to irritation, inflamation, and eventually infection, physical problems far worse than an overflowing toilet.
nb
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Agree. One must always look for the unexpected consequence with dementia patients. We think they will react to things logically, but their logical facilities are eroding daily and so they do very odd things.
My dad had the same problems and I am on the approach curve with moderate to severe short term memory loss that's advancing. I read posts like this knowing that I'd better think about implementing some of them while I still can. I see two approaches to this problem.
I would try to put a sensor on the toilet paper dispenser that was able to send a pulse to my HomeVision automation controller for each reach of the roller using a tiny magnet and a tiny Hall effect sensor. When the count reached some pre-determined number I would have the HV controller announce "That's enough toilet paper, Mom - time to flush."
Sometimes people with Alzheimer's just need a reminder. They get locked into repetitive behaviors with no internal "counter" to break the loop.
I might even consider rigging an actuator from a car power lock or some other device to just go ahead and flush the toilet after 4 accesses to the toilet paper. It's probably quite "doable" and cheap these days to fit the patient with a GPS so that you'd know where they were. That way you could set the system only to warn mom and not scare a visitor with a bad case of the Aztec two-step into a heart attack when they hear the toilet paper talking . . .
However, for the OP I suggest they get a better toilet that's more resistant to clogs. Many of the previous suggestions, as you note, will cause more serious problems. If your mom is like my dad was, she's also easily frustrated and upset and limiting the TP supply or the water supply is likely to cause agitation and perhaps even more bad behavior than it was meant to prevent.
Many of the new low-flow toilets clog at the drop of a hat because the waste channels are narrower than the older designs. More efficient almost always translates into "less powerful" these days. A good plumber will be able to point the OP to a model that's more clog resistant than current. Maybe others can tell us whether the black market for high powered non-green toilets still exists.
The OP should be thankful that his parent is still able to do the job themselves.
I commend both you and the OP for caring for your parent at home. Sometimes it's a crushing job when they don't even remember who you are or what you're doing for them. Alzheimer's is one of the cruelest jokes Nature plays on us, robbing us of our intellect, our dignity and our sense of well-being.
Children caring for a parent with dementia are prone to serious bouts of depression. They often imagine themselves with the disease as they get older. Worse, still, they typically never get a break from caregiving until the patient passes, evaporating before their very eyes. Best day of my life? When my Dad took me to the World's Fair in NYC. Worst day? When he didn't even know who I was anymore or anything about the Fair. Death is frightening enough. Death by dementia is disastrous. )-;
-- Bobby G.
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I realize that this is a repair group, but I'd like to respond to the issue of approaching Alzheimer's you mention. I suggest that you investigate the term "low dose naltrexone", within the quote marks, with the second term as Alzheimer's. Be willing to consider the prospect of halting the advancement of the condition. After all, you have already shown that it is in your family history. Feel free to contact me privately if you have questions. But if you do the research, you should be able to get a pretty good idea of why I've made these comments.
And if you are reading this with concerns about cancer, autoimmune dysfunction, alcohol or narcotics addiction, and others issues, just use the first term, with your concern as the second.
You just might be surprised at what you find.
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Might as well throw in a URL as a start point. http://www.webspawner.com/users/ldnforad/index.html
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wrote:

I realize that this is a repair group, but I'd like to respond to the issue of approaching Alzheimer's you mention. I suggest that you investigate the term "low dose naltrexone", within the quote marks, with the second term as Alzheimer's. Be willing to consider the prospect of halting the advancement of the condition. After all, you have already shown that it is in your family history. Feel free to contact me privately if you have questions. But if you do the research, you should be able to get a pretty good idea of why I've made these comments.
And if you are reading this with concerns about cancer, autoimmune dysfunction, alcohol or narcotics addiction, and others issues, just use the first term, with your concern as the second.
You just might be surprised at what you find.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- I asked my doc about and he says the real clinical trials are just starting. Having been badly burned by one med, Cipro, I'm going to wait until something like that not only passes efficacy trials, but has actually been out on the market for a few years to catch all of the unknown interactions. Thanks for your input!
-- Bobby G.
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At first I thought OPs request didn't apply because with my Alsheimer, the guy who hates to wash his hands also uses both sides of the toilet paper.
But the toilet timer does touch on something I notice often. There's a tendency to suggest gadgets to help out, presumably by people who have no practical experience. In the real world it usually boils down to increasing amounts of supervision.
m
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Well, Fake, it sounds like you're unaware of a number of serious initiatives designed to make the lives of Alzheimer's patients and caregivers (usually spouses or children of the victim) easier, not harder. "Gadgets" as you term them, have already proved quite valuable in allowing Alzheimer patients and caregivers to live better lives. As you're probably aware, there are significant differences between early and late stages of dementia.
In the early stages of the disease, forgetfulness is the enemy. Many Alzheimers patient get institutionalized after an a cooking accident or some other serious event in the home linked to forgetfulness. There are devices to automatically shut off stoves before they can create a fire, anti-scald devices to prevent them from burning themselves with overly-hot water. There are GPS bracelets that can locate a strayed dementia patient who has strayed. They often leave their houses in very cold weather and die of expo sure before they are located. Before he died, I was working with HomeVision to create checklists for my father - things he needed to do each day, things he needed to do before leaving the house, etc. I'll agree that as dementia worsens, more care is needed, but in the early stages "gadgets" can be awfully helpful.
http://www.alzheimersweekly.com/content/casensa-home-automation-bell-labs
<Casensa will allow people with early dementia to stay at home longer and will support caregivers by introducing assistive technology into the house.>
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumberE61994
<Assistive technology in smart homes for elderly people with Alzheimer's disease is needed to support 'aging in place'. In this paper, we propose a probabilistic learning approach to characterise behavioural patterns for multi-inhabitants in smart homes. Decision support is then provided to monitor and assist patients to complete activities of daily living (ADL).>
If a gadget can prevent a caregiver from having to worry every second of every day, I say "OK!"
-- Bobby G.
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On Jun 2, 1:08 am, snipped-for-privacy@sonic.net (Fake ID) wrote:

caring people who choose to keep impaired loved ones at home, there may come a time...
Meanwhile, if finances and/or social services permit, it would be great to have a helper, at least part time. That person will get the hang of the patient's elimination schedule and be there to help him/ her do the deed and clean up him/herself appropriately, w/o clogging toilet.
HB
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Time for wetwipes, to be discarded in the closed trash can nearby?
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]Fahgoodnessake be sure the wet wipes are NOT the kind that clog the toilet. I used to mistakenly discarded them in the toitie, and wouldn't you know, it was just when relatives were visiting that it backed up. Talk about embarrassing!!! They kindly explained my dumb mistake, and now I keep by the toilet ONLY flushable ones like Cottonelle Fresh.
An impaired individual of all people must have accessible ONLY the flushable kind!
HB
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jamesgangnc wrote:

Probably not as easy as you think...Depending on where the clog is, an overflow drain exiting behind it could work.
But what about the overflow drain itself clogging with toilet paper or floating turds?
I'd give your idea a score of about .05 out of 10. <G>
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
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jamesgangnc wrote:

Fill your sink with enough paper to block the overflow. Or stuff some crap down into the sink trap. You'll figger out why a toilet overflow won't work. Sink overflows only prevent overflow if the drain is closed, but the PIPE is still open.
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On 6/1/2011 6:20 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

I like Thomas' answer. Get that thin one ply stuff from walmart. It takes miles of that to make a wad.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
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On 6/1/2011 6:20 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

Get one of those toilets that has a pressure bladder inside the tank. My friend has one and when it's flushed, it sounds like a rocket launch and it would flush a full grown cat if you tried. (No, it was never done by me or anyone else at his house.) Come to think of it a cat did turn up missing but it was one Halloween and the cat was black. Folks will steal black cats that time of year. :-)
TDD
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Doug Miller wrote:

Why rest of you are cleaning up? Let the person clean up unless mentally challenged or very old person. If you restrict the water it may end up causing more clogging.
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Hmmmm, Do you have a reading comprehension problem, or are you just stupid? Read the paragraph *immediately above* your reply: "an 87 year old with Alzheimer's".
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