Time and a half for over 40 hours

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snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Which opens up a whole new bag of worms.... Is Kleptomania a treatable disease? And, if so, can you be fired for contracting a treatable disease?
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wrote:

Probably depends on how far left the jurisdiction is. Go far enough left and even child rape is just peachy.
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It isn't treatable in the sense that you can take something for it (sorry). Psychotherapy is about the only treatment with any science behind it. Obviously you can fire someone for stealing from you.
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Kurt Ullman wrote:

Well, my point is that you can carry, "bleeding heart liberalism" too far. At some point, you have to force people to be responsible for themselves, no matter how socialized the society.
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wrote:

Not if you are fired "with cause" in Canada - at least in Ontario.
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On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 15:58:08 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Doesn't it depend on the cause? If the job changes and you're now not qualified, it is a firing with cause (incompetency) but it's not something you can do anything about.
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snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

True. And this happens to many people in this computer age. I was a high energy physics machind operator. They obsoleted my machind and transferred me to a new, much larger and more complicated machind when I was older and less able to memorize large quantities of information. They didnlt lay me off, but they instituted a, "geezer elimination program" (my descriotion) where they paid you two weeks salery for every year you had been with them (up to a maximum of a years pay.) Since I had been with them for 28 years, I g9ot a years pay to leave, so I retired at the age of 61, but didn't start collecting any social security until the following year, at 62.
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Bill Graham wrote:

There is an interesting story (and kind of nice one, too) about the above program. We had an older guy nick-named, "Zack", who had been with us longer than I had. He was a carpenter in the research yard, if I recall correctly.One Friday, Zack told his boss that his wife was sick with cancer, and it was getting harder and harder for him to care for her, so he was going to have to leave. His boss comiserated with him and said, "OK Zack. You don't have to work the normal two weeks. Just come in on Monday and pick up your two weeks severance pay and go back home to take care of your wife." Well, neither Zack nor his boss knew that they had just instituted their, "geezer elimination program" that weekend, so when Zack showed up Monday morning, they cut him a check for 26 times what he expected. Zack looked at the check, and said, "There must be some mistake. You guys are paying me 26 times more money than you should." The accounting supervisor looked at the check and said, "No mistake. You've been here over 26 years, so you get a years pay for severance."
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wrote:

It is "constructive dismissal" in Canada - and is NOT "with cause". The employer pays
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

You speak as if it were a law. In Canada, it may well be a law. Here there is no such law. If your employer wants to get rid of some people, he just lets them go, but pays them for their accumulated vacion time. When I left Stanford University, they didn;t even pay for ones accumulated sick leave. I had around 6 months sick leave on the books, (I was almost never sick) and didn;t get paid for that. Smaller businesses here in those days, didn;t pay for vacations or holidays, either. Bsck in the mid 60's I worked for a place that fixed shipboard radars, and one day, my boss said, "Tomorrow.s the 4th of July, so you guys don;t have to come in". We all thought we would be paid, but when we got our checks a couple of weeks later, we only got paid for 4 days that week...:^)
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wrote:

Accumulated sick leave is a perk that is generally regulated by your employment contract - if non-union it usually does not exist. Many unions are having to let that "bonus" go. I say good riddance. Not sure how it is in the USA, but since the sixties here in Ontario vacation pay has been mandatory in all but a few select job classes (education, police service, and a few others). It differs from province to province. 4% of total earnings from day one, and 2 weeks time off after one year - 6% and 3 weeks after 5 years in Ontario. Statutary holidaysvary depending whether you are in a provincially or federally regulated industry - some stats are provincial, some are federal.
Again - this is Canada (and Ontario) specific. We are a "socialist" society - The "american way" may differ.
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On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 22:27:43 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Nothing mandatory about vacation at all. Why should it be? The question whether any time accrued is paid upon termination. This is certainly jurisdiction and custom dependant.

Thankfully.
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On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 00:20:59 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Most companies to have a policy where vacation is accrued during the work year. Others though, do not and you get nothing if you leave before July 1 or whenever shutdown for vacation is.
Why should anything be mandatory? Really, if you pay people enough they can take care of the "benefits" as they see fit. Except that most people don't have the willpower to save.
Some work schedules are other people dependent, such as an assembly line or food service. Other people work independent of each other and can be more flexible. I know a fellow that worked for a software company. The rule was: you have to work 240 eight hour days a year. This is what your pay will be every month.
My deal is even looser than that. I have no minimum time to work.
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So you don't believe people should get paid for the hours worked, if they get fired, either?

Vacation is a benefit to the employer, as well.

OK, what's that got to do with the discussion?

So is mine. I have no maximum that I can work. ;-)
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On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 19:35:57 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Where did I say that? I didn't.

But needs and wants vary. Some people like to take long vacations, others would rather have the money. No reason that the employee can't have some say in what they do and prefer.

The fact that with a system of that sort, there is no overtime, no lateness, no sick days, no absenteeism, no pay variances, almost no limit on vacation time other than a 125 day maximum if you work it right. It empowers the employee to take care of business as he sees fit.
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You don't think getting paid for vacation time earned should be mandatory. That *WAS* the subject, BTW.

Sure, but why should the employer be able to steal vacation from someone who's earned it? That *WAS* the issue.

Try following the discussion.
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On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 22:56:10 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Sure, if earned and part of the employment agreement. If the vacation is based on time worked on a particular calendar date, you are SOL. You are supposed to know the terms of employment when you sign on.
At many companies, you get a week after a year of employment. If you can canned at six months, no vacation pay for time worked.

Employer can only steal if time was on the books. see above example.

The discussion has drifted to many areas or employment, few actually having to do with the subject line.
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You're changing the subject, again.

In many, you get so many hours per hour worked. Some of those don't pay accrued vacation time if you're canned, either. That's what we were discussing. Your statement was that nothing should be mandatory. I'm with you about 90% of the way but the above case is *clearly* in the other 10%.

Duh!

You don't even bother to keep the discussion relevant to the article you're replying to.
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That's the beaty of the Canadian system. It is "accrued" vacation pay - which is separate from vacation time. You get the pay after 1 week, 6 months, or a year - 4% of total earned wages.
You only get vacation time after 1 year unless you negotiate differently with the employer when hired. The employer cannot deny you the time off, but you can negotiate with the employer if you want to work 52 weeks per year and just take the cash. LEGALLY you are supposed to take the 2 weeks time off.

IN CANADA (at least in ONTARIO, unless you are one of the few exempt employers, you pay the vacation pay. Part time workers get it on their weekly cheque - $x dollars an hour times hours + 4% vac pay.
Now I work on contract - so I only get paid what I invoice. No holiday pay, no benefits, no taxes witheld at source, and no unemployment insurance . So basically I'm paid like a Yankee, I guess. But I also get to set my hours (within limits). If the "boss" doesn't like my hours he is free to contract with someone else - and I'm out of a job with no recourse. I am "self employed" operating my own business selling my services to other companies.

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Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Sounds like socialism to me. "The poor employee is incapable of taking care of himself and making the right decisions in his life, so we will have to tell him what to do. How to live, when and what vacations to take, what benefits he should receive.... After all, we can;t have any of the ants in the colony just going off on their own, can we?
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