Just curious if anyone runs into this problem with common area thermostats.
In an apartment bldg, if the T-stat is set at 70, and if the tenants still complain its too cold, could it be the location of the T-stat not calling for heat?
Reason I ask is that the T-stat in my Apt bldg is in a common hallway on the 2nd floor, up high on the wall in a tamper-proof box. And on a cold night I was down there, the actual temp in the hallway says 70 on the T-stat (T-stat does not call for heat until it drops below
70), but in the apt itself it feels colder, maybe 65. I feel as if maybe where the T-stat is its warmer. So to compensate for this, I raised it to 72. So far I have not heard complaints. But is this usually a problem where T-stats are mounted in common areas, and you have to try and find that "sweet spot?"
It will be next to impossible to have even heat in the whole building using one thermostat regardless of it's location. Currently when it's set for 70, your apt is 65, so if you want your apt to be 70, you'll have to raise the stat, and the temp in the hall to 75.
I used to live in an apartment with an interior hallway, and the thermostat in the hallway. In cold windy weather the rooms were much colder than the hallway and the thermostat had to be set high to get them warm enough. No big deal.
What doesn't work is if two separate apartments on different sides of the building share a thermostat. Is that the case here?
You have been suckered. At the ceiling the temp in a room much higher than on the floor. That themostat should have been at "living altitude". Smart guy that landlord.
There is no way to balance a steam-heated building by adjusting a single thermostat in all weather conditions. You're picking the "least sucky" location for the thermostat and trying to tweak things from there. You should make sure that everyone understands that the radiator valve on a steam radiator does not adjust the heat. It's binary - it's either all the way open, or all the way closed, and they shouldn't dick around with it. People mess with the valves and that makes your job of balancing the system frustrating.
After that point is made, then you start looking at the air vents (they're commonly called steam vents, but they're not supposed to vent steam, just air). They don't last forever, and they will get clogged if you have dirty water. Hint - you do - it's the nature of the beast. Gorton makes some excellent non-adjustable vents.
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There are adjustable vents that will let the tenant make some adjustments. Radiators that you want to pull more heat should vent air more quickly, and radiators that you want to retard the heating should vent more slowly.
An old trick is to turn the vent upside down - that effectively prevents air from escaping (on some air vents) and shuts off the radiator. I do not recommend doing this. Your tenants will screw it up and you'll be breaking out the taps to clear out the broken stub.
If you want a more expensive and more highly tweakable solution, Honeywell, Danfoss, Macon and others all make thermostatic steam radiator valves with controls. If it's one pipe steam, check out the Macon OPSK (it's the only model number I know off the top of my head, but it's a little higher priced than some other solution. Super easy to install, and it will allow the tenant to adjust the heating rate at a particular radiator.
There are also solutions using linked thermostats. Poke around on heatinghelp.com for the particulars of both alternatives.
Right. Don't get hung up on the number on the thermostat. That simply tells you the temperature at the thermostat. Whatever temperature it is in the rooms that are in question, checked with a thermometer, find the difference with the thermostat and start moving the thermostat setting in the direction you want to go in the room. If the room is low, adjust the thermostat upwards. Creep up on it through several days' heating cycles.
Don't think that you're wasting money because the thermostat is reading 80 F, or whatever. The only reading that matters is in the occupied rooms. You need to have those rooms at the desired temperature, regardless of what the thermostat is reading. You won't be 'wasting' money if the thermostat is at 80 F and the rooms are at the desired temperature. That's exactly the setting it is supposed to be, and you'll be spending the exact amount of money to heat the place to that temperature.
Of course a lower setting on the thermostat will decrease the heating bill, and that's part of the reason why the thermostat was put so high up on the wall. It's part to keep people from messing with it, and part so the landlord could say, "Hey! It's 75 F in here, why are you complaining about being cold?!"
When I fired up the boiler for the first time last month, I cranked it to 80 for about an hour and checked each apt to see if the radiators were getting hot, which they were. And I also replaced any suspect air valves. So the radiators themselves are fine. Its just the setting on the T-stat. This is my first winter with this bldg. The old landlord had a Honeywell single dial T-stat set at one temp 24 hrs. Not real energy efficient, so I replaced it with a programmable one.
I also told each tenant don't bother calling me to complain about the heat if your A/C's are still in the windows. God I hate when people do that.
How high on the wall? That can bring the temperature up as the hot air rises. Where is the closest radiator to the T-stat?
Have you put thermometers in the apartments to see what the actual temperature is? Also, remember that the apartments have a high heat loss through outside walls and windows while the common area is well insulated by those heated apartments. You may have to set it higher to get the apartments at proper temperature. During the day, the apartments getting sun will be warmer also.
Tell each tenant they have to open the interior doors and run a fan to circulate the air and then things will even out.
Are you serious with that suggestion, Ed? Besides the questions of privacy, noise, and odors there's also security. I don't know anyone that would welcome such a request. It's the landlord's responsibility to provide heat to an apartment, not the tenant's to have to go and get it. R
I replaced the air valves with the appropiate type, with the furthest one getting the valve that vents the quickest. All the radiators seem to get hot at the same time.
The T-stat is on the second floor of a 3 story bldg. It is about 8 1/2 feet high on the wall, you need a ladder to get to it. There is one big radiator on the first floor hallway.
As far as checking each apt, I did go into one apt the night I went down there and although I did not have a thermometer, it did seem cooler in there.
There are several 3 story apt bldgs in the area, and from what I gather, the T-stat is in the hallways. So I think it's just a matter of tweaking the setting to what everyone is happy with. At least at night when everyone sleeps I programmed the T-stat to a lower temp of 68 so I know the boiler is not on as much.
Usually, but in a house, air circulates between rooms making it a better representation. In my house, the closed door bedrooms are cooker than the other rooms.
That 8 1/2' mark may be a 2 degree difference, even more depending on the path of convection. With one radiator on the bottom floor, hot air is rising and it may be following the path right past the T-stat. Cooler air is at the stair tread level going in the opposite direction. Take a candle and watch the flame. When I have the wood burning stove going in the downstairs family room, there is quite a difference in air flow in the stairwell in the hallway.
If you leave the T-stat at that height, forget the temperature, use the numbers as a guide to what you want to have inside the apartments. #78 on the indicator may equal 70 degrees in the rooms.
In any case, I doubt you'll ever had every tenant happy with the temperature at all times. I can't even do that at home iwht just the two of us.
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