The cellphone paradox - where are all the accidents?

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On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 10:44:31 PM UTC-4, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Simulator testing, which of course you reject, has shown that cell phone use while driving does cause accidents. It's also obvious to me, from personal experience of using a phone, that I know I'm distracted and my concentration is affected. Like almost everyone else, except possibly you, I regularly see people slowing down for no reason, weaving into my lane, weaving into the gutter and they are doing it while using a cell phone. The comparison with brakes and headlights is ridiculous.
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On Wed, 19 Aug 2015 05:29:35 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

If you are like "everyone else" you are just showing confirmation bias. You ignore people who are weaving a little who DON'T have a cell phone but if you see someone with a cell phone and they weave even a tiny amount its confirmation that the cell phone is an instrument of the devil. So tell me, are the ONLY people who ever slow down, or who weave, or who do anything else you don't like ALWAYS using cell phones? And tell me, how many people are out there who ARE using cell phones but are NOT weaving, NOT slowing, etc. You have no data, no data at all, all you have is your own lack of skill which you wish to project on every other driver. If you can't drive and pick your nose at the same time get the hell off the road, you are a danger to everyone.
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On Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 10:41:37 PM UTC-4, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Of course not. But after observing their abnormal driving behavior when you're passing them and see them looking down at their phone, it's pretty obvious to most of us here that's the reason those particular people are weaving, slowing down, driving improperly, etc. That cell phones usage isn't the cause of all erratic driving doesn't mean it's not a significant source of erratic driving.
And tell me, how many people are out there who ARE

The data is apparently in the various studies. I'm not squawking PARADOX, PARADOX, you and your butt buddy CEG are. You two are the making the claim that there is a paradox, it's up to you to show that the data is wrong. So, it's actually you two who have no data to support *your* claim.
Anything else I can help you with today?
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<stuff snipped>

I recently saw a female bicyclist riding and looking down at what appeared to be a Kindle attached to her handlebars. Haven't seen her since. I suspect she'll eventually find out it's a bad idea if she hasn't already. Hopefully without injuring anyone else.
--
Bobby G.



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On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 04:35:46 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

You are wrong as usual. It is not up to us to explain or prove the cause of the paradox. To the contrary, CEG simply stated that there was a paradox and asked if anyone could explain it. So far the best anyone has come up with is their opinion that "cell phones are dangerous but not dangerous enough to affect the accident rates enough to notice." That could be so but if it is it means all the chicken littles yelling the sky is falling are full of crap. And if we are going to go down that path of opinion due to lack of data we can just as easily go down the path of claiming cell phones prevent as many or more accidents as they cause because it relieves people of being distracted by looking at maps as they drive thru LA at 80 mph and instead just get directions from their cell phone either from a GPS app or someone on the other end directing them. Or that lives have been saved because people cut short a trip they started (and thereby avoid an accident they would have had later in the trip) because someone called them halfway there on their cell and told them they no longer needed to make the trip.
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On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 03:02:31 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster

daughter

Heck, there can be no doubt some people have died because they looked at the watch at *just* the wrong time and didn't see the semi stopping in front of them. I watched the woman ahead of me, this was WAY before anyone had car phone much less a cell phone, literally knock the flag out of the hand of the guy stopping traffic for construction trucks to cross the highway.
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<stuff snipped>

Wow! Knocking the flag out of his hands would be worth triple points.
(-:
The loss of attention doesn't even have to be voluntary. I had a number of wasps flying around in the van one day and it's only providence that I didn't lose control of the car and crash. I got stung like a mother, though!
The next day I took the chain saw and sent all the Roses of Charon to Hades where they and the wasps that frequented them belonged.
--
Bobby G.



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On 8/22/2015 7:17 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Not sure if I want to know what he said, at that moment!
-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: INSTRUCTOR'S SOLUTIONS MANUAL PDF: Linear Algebra Done Right, 2nd Ed by Sheldon Axler Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 22:11:32 -0700 (PDT) From: snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com Newsgroups: alt.home.repair -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: INSTRUCTOR'S SOLUTIONS MANUAL PDF: Linear Algebra Done Right, 2nd Ed by Sheldon Axler Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 22:11:32 -0700 (PDT) From: snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com Newsgroups: alt.home.repair -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: INSTRUCTOR'S SOLUTIONS MANUAL PDF: Linear Algebra Done Right, 2nd Ed by Sheldon Axler Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 22:11:32 -0700 (PDT) From: snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
--
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
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Mr. Stormin M, You might want to check to see if your SIG has all the solutions manual crap in it. Every recent reply I see from you has that appended to it.
On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 08:34:49 -0400, Stormin Mormon

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On 8/16/2015 10:51 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

so says you and ceg. NBC new said different tonight.
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On 8/16/2015 9:21 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I think some people are geared to naturally process multiple events at the same time and do it w/o any issues at all. Then there are others who can't walk and snap their fingers at the same time. The last group of people shouldn't probably use a cell phone, talk to passengers, or even play a radio while they drive.
--
Maggie

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Per Muggles:

Bingo!... I think we have an answer....
--
Pete Cresswell

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On 8/17/2015 8:54 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

:D
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Maggie

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Sorta. Different people can do varying number of things at the same time. (For a few, that number is zero). When I'm talking on a ham radio in the car, I can only do two things simultaneously. I sometimes announce that: "Talk, Think, Drive... pick any two" I tend to favor Talk and Drive. The usual result is that thinking and therefore the quality of my discourse suffer greatly. With a cell phone conversation, I need to both talk and think, leaving driving as the lesser priority. However, with ham radio, little or no thought is involved because I mentally rehearse what I'm going to say in advance.
I've only seen someone do 3 things at once, once. I was once at a ham convention and watched someone simultaneously copy high speed Morse code in his head, engage in a PSK-31 keyboard to keyboard exchange, and talk to me at the same time. I was impressed, but I must say that he was also well practiced. I suppose if someone offered classes in reactive driving responses while texting or talking, it might improve the situation.
--
Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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On 8/17/2015 10:08 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

q: Do you think men are more likely to only do 2 things at one time, and women more able to do 2+ things at one time? I've seen discussions where the conclusion was that women are more able to multitask without skipping a beat and men were more single minded limiting their ability to multitask?
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Maggie

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I have no opinion on the matter. Well, maybe a small one. I've seen women successfully juggling three or more children at one time with little obvious difficulty. I presume that skill could also be applied to driving. I can only handle one screaming brat at a time, and not very well at that. If true, the difference should appear in the distribution of distracted driving accidents and fatalities by sex. I'll dig (later) in the NHTSA data dumpster and see if I can find anything that provides this information.

It's quite possibly true, but I have no experience in the matter. My marginally relevant experience is primarily in RF exposure from cell phones.
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Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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On 8/17/2015 2:12 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

It would be interesting to see what sort of results you find. I'd guess that men would have more difficulty multitasking than women. The results might also trickle through to the level of difficulty each would have using a cell phone while driving.

ahh OK.
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Maggie

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Per Muggles:

Kind of makes sense in the context of man-the-hunter being evolved to stalk something, kill it, and bring it home.
OTOH, woman-the-gatherer, would seem better served by browsing behavior.
At least that's how I rationalize trips to the shopping mall: I want to find the shoes, kill them, and bring them home. My SO wants to look here, look there....
--
Pete Cresswell

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On 08/17/2015 01:23 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

I have two modes: the hunter-killer mode for when I need a specific thing or things (a black straight skirt to wear to the goodam presentation), and the browse mode when I'm in a store where I never know what I'll find -- 99-Cents-Only, for instance. Costco is a combo -- I have a list, but I have to go up/down each aisle to find stuff and I generally find stuff that I should have put on the list.
That being said, I hate shopping anywhere but 99-Cents-Only and Costco and I despise shopping for clothes.
I always (since I started driving at 16, anyway) regarded time in the car as 'nobody can get at me' time. I still do. If I want to use the phone I'll turn it on. If *I* want to use the phone...
--
Cheers, Bev
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On 8/17/2015 2:06 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

Or, worse yet, LOOK at all of them, then nonchalantly <flinch> and leave, empty-handed -- yet not *distressed* by this fact!

I think most men treat shopping as a chore-to-be-avoided. Getting me *into* a store requires a significant effort (as does getting me out of the HOUSE!). OTOH, once there, I will scour my brain for every item on the "to be found" list and check to see if THIS store happens to have any of THOSE things; I've made the investment *getting* here, lets' make it yield some results!
OTOH, get into an old-fashioned hardware store (i.e., *not* "Ace") and I can spend hours looking at odd little things wondering what use I could find for them! :>
[Men also seem to have an unnatural fondness for flashlights! And, give a man a garden hose and he won't set it down until the well runs dry! :> ]

I've got clothes down to a science: buy lots of the *same* pants, shirts, socks, etc. Then, buying is just a check-off task (no "looking" or "deciding" required). And, can even be delegated to others: "Pick up three of these, for me -- at <store>".
It also cuts down on that time in the morning when you have to "decide" what to wear, "today".

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