The cellphone paradox - where are all the accidents?

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On 8/25/2015 9:11 AM, Robert Green wrote:

Which *other* abusable portions of our legal code should we also address? (e.g., squatter's rights?)
There will always be exploits. People will always "game the system" in ways that violate the spirit of the law -- if not the letter.
Has anyone put a verifiable *number* on this abuse practice? I keep hearing sky-is-falling woes about "voter fraud" yet never manage to see any *numbers* -- yet folks don't hesitate to pass laws that make it harder for *legitimate* voters to remain on the rolls.
Living an hour (drive) from the border, "immigration" is a concrete issue, here. We *know* people who's lands are routinely crossed by the "coyotes".
OTOH, we also see many of these "worst of Mexico" (Trumps words) and how hard they work (except at 2PM) and realize much of *that* rhetoric is just playing the same old emotional saw. E.g., neighbor who routinely rails against "the illegals" -- yet never hires "white people". I'm fond of saying that, since moving here, all I've met is lazy white men!
[Anecdote: gas lines to all our homes were replaced a year or so ago. Crew is entirely latinos -- presumably "with appropriate papers". Two guys are digging out the riser that comes into the bottom of the gas meter, here. Down about 3 ft (?). Guy in the hole doing the digging is starting to get tired, slowing down -- yet still digging more aggressively than you or I would. Guy *not* in the hole is slapping him on the back: "C'mon, let *me* get in there!"
Watching this, I was struck by how different it would have been had two *white* guys been doing it! The guy in the hole would be grumbling, "Hey, man, it's YOUR TURN!" And, the guy on the outside would look at his *watch* and say, "No, you've still got another 45 seconds!!"]
[Another anecdote: Shortly after arriving, roof needed to be painted. I priced the materials at ~$500 and figured it would take me about a day of my time -- two if I busted my *ss on prep work.
Got a quote from a guy for just $50 more than I figured materials would cost. I assumed he probably got a great discount on the materials (big markup in this stuff) and *that's* where he was making most of his money! So, rather than waste a day of my time learning the easiest way of doing it, hire this guy!
Met him on the roof to learn how its done. First thing he did was pour half of a 5G pail of paint into another EMPTY bucket. Then, asked me for my GARDEN HOSE -- with which he promptly filled the balance of *both* buckets with WATER. I.e., thinned the paint by half! And, while doing so, telling me how much easier it is to apply like this! (sure, you're just pushing WATER around, no paint!!)
"Ah, now I see how he makes his money!"
Yet, from the moment he got out of his truck, he was lecturing me on his (LDS) God and how he has embraced Christ and lets him guide him through life (I thought Joseph was a Carpenter? Maybe they had a side business as a PAINTER??). Sure glad we hired that nice, white, god-fearing fellow -- NOT!]

So, she gets a 6 month work VISA and shows up pregnant, works HARD for those 6 months and then delivers just before her visa expires. What then?
Or, she gets a student VISA and, sometime in those 4 years, gets knocked up by a nice white John Bircher. What then?

As I posted in another post, a local hospital *advertises* south of the border: "Come have your baby in our nice clean hospital (giving it US citizenship) then spend a few days *shopping* in our (nicer) stores before heading back across the border."
I think you can deal with the majority of the "here illegally" babies by more effectively deporting their (illegal) parents. "Your 2 month old child can stay -- but you guys will have to leave!" (Huh? Who will take care of our baby???)
The same approach works for older "dreamers". Yeah, you've been here 15 years and you can stay. But, your folks (aunts, etc.) will have to leave. If "keeping the family together" is as important as you CLAIM it is, then you can leave WITH THEM!

But, as I mentioned before, it also covered those of us who are first/second generation Americans from folks who were here *legally*! E.g., all of my grandparents came to this country from Europe. Their offspring were all born on US soil. As were those of us 2nd generation. How would *they* have been treated by your (yet unspecified) system? Would each have been a "foreigner" until they were old enough to take a citizenship test? Would my grandparents have had to *pay* a lawyer to file papers for each of them while still children (no "test" required)?
Where's the outrage over the number of US citizens who can't name the three branches of government? Or tell you how many members in each chamber? How they are elected? Describe the electoral college and its role in presidential elections? Enumerate the rules of succession? List the Bill of Rights?
(Look at all the looney tunes claiming "Christian Nation")
Aren't those ignorant/lazy US citizens as big a threat to our system of government as these hordes of "illegals"? *Half* of them stay home for elections! I guess the right to vote isn't THAT important. Maybe we should make it "expire" if not regularly *used*?? That would be far simpler to implement than DNA testing for birthrite! :>

No, he won't. Same sort of rhetoric from Perot. It's very different to be the head of a corporation vs. having to convince ~535 other sods to agree with you -- esp when they each "answer" to a different portion of the population than the President!
I suspect Trump knows this and doesn't *want* the job! After all, if he didn't get *reelected* he would have effectively been FIRED! And, if he couldn't get what he WANTED done, he would look impotent. His personality seems to REQUIRE projecting competence. We don't here him talk often of his business, marriage, etc. FAILURES. And, he NEVER admits mistakes. I don't think he could stomach the idea that others (e.g., historians) would cast the final verdict on his capabilities -- folks that he couldn't buy/suppress.
No, I suspect he wants the attention (now) and possibly something FROM the republicans as a concesssion. A plank in the platform, etc.

They don't see that he's, perhaps, looking at this as yet another BUSINESS opportunity? I don't think many consider him a philanthropist. He does for himself, not for the benefit of others. Suddenly, he's going to put the needs of 300+Million above his own?
[I've got some land in Florida I'm looking to sell -- as soon as it dries out!]

That doesn't say much. :>

Does running a country equate to running a FOR PROFIT business? What will his guiding principle be: maximize PROFITS (i.e., collect more in taxes than spend on services?)
How will he evaluate security relationships with our international counterparts: "China is worth $X to us; Japan is worth $Y so, in the dispute between Japan and China, I'll back China if X>Y..."

I think the Republicans might find themselves unhappy: "Be careful what you wish for". His past stands on women's rights, Obamacare, etc. are directly at odds with the current drumbeat of that Party. But, folks are reacting emotionally instead of THINKING about the consequences of their actions. "We'll worry about what happens when we win AFTER we win!" (yeah, but there are no Mulligan's in politics! :> )
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Per Don Y:

I cannot cite, but have heard from sources that I tend to trust that studies *have* been done - and indicate the voter fraud is a non-issue - useful only for justifying laws intended to cut down on voting by certain segments of the population.
OTOH, I know somebody who is a cop in a major Eastern city and he says that voter fraud is rampant.
"You pays your money and you takes your choice."
--
Pete Cresswell

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On 8/25/2015 5:53 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

I'd tend more to disbelieve than believe.
I.e., what *direct* benefit does the perpetrator get? His/her ONE "fraudulent" vote may or may not bias the result in the direction he/she favors. Yet, getting caught means direct consequences.
Likewise, if these are "illegals", why risk putting yourself in front of someone who *can* check your ID and possibly bring a world of trouble down on you (i.e., deportation).
If said cop "knows" it is rampant, isn't it his *sworn duty* to uphold the law? I.e., NOT look the other way?
Or, is he yet another one relying on hearsay or wishful thinking?
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On Tue, 25 Aug 2015 18:10:51 -0700, Don Y

Story I heard directly from the horses mouth...
Co-worker used to work the polls every year for many years in a minority farming area. He said that buses would come and go all day long at the polls and they were full of Mexicans who could not speak English. Who could not write. Who could not read English. The handler on the bus would take them in the polling place and go with them into the booth to "help" them vote. Then back out on the bus and away. No way these folks were legal. But no one cares. Anyone who challenges what's going on is a racist.
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On 8/25/2015 7:39 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Wow, you must have really SLEEZY friends! Imagine, seeing such flagrant violations of the law and not taking the time to photograph it with his phone. Sacrificing his $100/day job as a poll worker for the good of the country -- to bring this TRUTH to light!

And he knew that, DEFINITIVELY, how? Because of the color of the bus? The position of the Sun in the sky?
My grandparents could not read/write English. Yet, they were citizens. My parents had to "translate" the ballots for their parents. Show them how to identify the candidates that they wanted to vote for when they walked into the voting booth.
[Wow, I never realized I was an "illegal"!]

Post it on facebook. Aw, gee, I wish I had thought of that! But, I left my phone at home, that day. And, I couldn't leave my position at the polling place -- don't have any friends or family that I could call to document this FOR ME, etc.
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Per Don Y:

When you get down to it, everything that we do not experience directly can be called hearsay.
That being said, I would go with the study.
--
Pete Cresswell

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On 8/26/2015 5:45 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Yes.

Ditto. And, if you really think there *is* such a problem, there are ways to ensure there is NOT (e.g., national ID card). But, then that closes off other problem areas that *you* may want to remain "exploitable"!
But, it's far more "effective" (for your particular agenda) to drum up an emotional response for something that you make *sound* like it could be possible!
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(PeteCresswell) posted for all of us...

It is evident when more people vote in their districts than there are residents-registered or not.
--
Tekkie

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On 8/27/2015 1:43 PM, Tekkie® wrote:

Then that should be *really* easy to call up after-the-fact and audit! Can you point to all those headlines?? (And, subsequent investigation *proving* the fraud?)
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Don Y posted for all of us...

As I've stated here before, I am not doing your research for you.
--
Tekkie

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On 8/29/2015 1:55 PM, Tekkie® wrote:

I'd expect the folks making the unsubtantiated *claims* to post their research/proof/supporting evidence.
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Uncle Monster posted for all of us...

butt ugly. ^_^

That means I am a shoo-in! Err screwup Err landslide loser.
--
Tekkie

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Per Tekkie®:

Addiction is also a big player. A close family member was nine years old when WW II ended and observes that, in the ruins of Europe where people were starving, coffee and cigarettes were among the most sought-after commodities.
--
Pete Cresswell

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On 8/25/2015 3:43 PM, Don Y wrote:

I'm amazed at the number of people who think the President "runs the country". He's an elected representative, with certain powers delegated by the Constitution. It's been a lot of years since I read those powers, sadly so. I should review those one of these days. But, anyone who says the President "runs the country" has lost credibility with me.
- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .
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On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 09:03:06 -0400, Stormin Mormon

Well, the president does RUN the gvt. And the gvt controls a huge part of the national economy. And teh president has lawyers on staff who can 'research' the law and come up with all sorts of legal justifications for the president to have all sorts of powers to dictate this that and the other thing shall be done this that and the other way. So yes, in many ways the president DOES run the country. The president, thru the EPA is going to make YOUR electric bill go up and that extra cost YOU will pay will produce zero value, it will just be that his decisions will have increased the cost of producing energy.
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On 8/27/2015 10:36 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Back in the lost credibility bin with you.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
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On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 09:31:28 -0400, Stormin Mormon

You must be mental.
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On 8/29/2015 12:39 AM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Actually, it's been a long time since I read that section of the Constitution. but, the Prez does NOT run the government.
You follow that up with a personal insult, which puts you both in the lost credibility and also in the bozo bin. Bye.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
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On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 07:56:51 -0400, Stormin Mormon

And you prove it.
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The problem I see is that the conclusion is absurd. The CLAIM that the accidents were caused by the cell phones is mostly likely just happenstance. A cell phone was in use THEREFORE the cell phone MUST have caused the accident. Well, the brakes were in use too, should we say the brakes caused the accident? Ditto for the headlights for nighttime accidents. You know every cop is itching to check the box or write the comment that "cell phone contributed" because cell phones are today's demon. It's like how when someone has a single car accident and they can't come up with a reason they check the box for "speed related" because... Hey, he must have been going to fast! He had an accident!!.
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