The adverse effects of legislating efficiency:

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One could argue that the legislation that raised the minimum efficiency of air conditioners and heat pumps to 13 SEER resulted in thinner tubing walls, more evaporator coils leaks, and, as a result, more ozone-damaging freon released into the atmosphere.
http://www.watkinsheating.com/blog/the_cause_of_freon_leaks/
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com writes:

Freon used in air conditioners is no longer the ozone-damaging kind:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freon
(another effect of legislation)
--
Dan Espen

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Netpick!
Freon is a brand name, a company that makes (or used to make) refrigerants. The same refrigerants were made by Genetron, Isotron, Forane, and perhaps other companies.
Saying "Freon" is like saying Sunoco, or saying Tylenol, or Kleenex. It's a brand name.
Further, there are several different types of Freon, like there are different types of Sunoco, or of Tylenol.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
On 9/14/2013 8:37 AM, Dan Espen wrote:

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On 9/14/2013 8:47 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Freon is DuPont's trade name for their refrigerants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freon
Chloro fluoro carbon compounds were banned as ozone depleting substances and replaced by fluoro carbons without chlorine. Chloro carbons like carbon tet also fell under the ban.
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Which had its own unintended consequences. I used to do fire investigations in a heavily Amish area right about the time the Carbon tet ban was taking effect. The Amish, among others, used it heavily in their chimney fires. So, we rolled up on this pretty well gutted house and found 2-3 regular fire extinguishers just sitting there full loaded in the fireplace. The chief told us that he was going to have a couple of fire extinguisher sessions at the local Amish hall to let them know that you couldn't just throw them into the fireplace, have them bust open and take care of the fire.
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On Saturday, September 14, 2013 4:03:46 PM UTC-4, Kurt Ullman wrote:

I'm not sure I get this.... I remember the old carbon tetrachloride fire extinguishers that you pumped to squirt it on the fire. You're saying the Amish would just throw the whole thing in a fire to put it out? And that they then thought it would work with other fire extinguishers too? Even with carbon tet, it would take a while for the heat to cause it to finally burst. In the meantime, the fire spreads. Not a very effective way of using it. And throwing the fire extinguisher in the fire would destroy a perfectly good extinguisher that could be refilled. Really dumb.
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On 9/14/2013 4:26 PM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I think you could toss a glass bottle of carbon tet and have it break open. I recall glass "bombs" in holders for that purpose.
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Wow, you and I are dated. Me, I only read about the glass bombs.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
On 9/14/2013 5:16 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

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Yep. It has been awhile and I forgot to make the distinctions.
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On Sunday, September 15, 2013 9:31:53 AM UTC-4, Kurt Ullman wrote:

K, I never saw one of those, only the carbon tet ones that were cylinders with a pump handle on the end. Makes more sense now. But... man you'd have to be really, really dumb to not realize the difference between a glass bottle type intended to shatter and steel cylinders with a trigger, hose, etc. I guess if a fire truck were available, they'd drive that into the fire too.
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Some of the early carbon tet units were glass balls. You'd throw them at the fire, the ball would break and release the liquid.
I've also heard of old guys turn a fire extinguisher upside down, because the old soda acids had to turn bottom up. With the new units, all you'd get upside down is propellant.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
On 9/14/2013 4:26 PM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

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That's a real shame. To lose a house, cause no one showed them how a fire extinguisher of that design works.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
On 9/14/2013 4:03 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:

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On 9/14/2013 5:32 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

RTFM?
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Yes, I'd have to guess they did come with a furnished manual. I wonder how many times in my life, I use the old instructions on the new device, and wonder why the freon thing doesn't work?
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
On 9/15/2013 3:20 AM, bud-- wrote:

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"Frank" wrote in message
On 9/14/2013 8:47 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Freon is DuPont's trade name for their refrigerants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freon
Chloro fluoro carbon compounds were banned as ozone depleting substances and replaced by fluoro carbons without chlorine. Chloro carbons like carbon tet also fell under the ban.
In the 40's we used carbon tet during radio repairs. Squirted it into radio cabinets to kill the cockroaches before removing the back covers. Also had a five gallon can to dip the chassis into to clean them. Bare handed no masks. Learned in later years how dangerous to health that was. Surprised I am still here to type this. WW
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adverse effects of legislating efficiency::

Maybe it isn't as dangerous as the Feds claim. When I look at all stuff the Feds claim is "dangerous" and how much our society used all of it years ago, ISTM we should all be dead.
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Some guys used to use carbon tet as hand cleaner.
I've heard of dusting the kids with DDT before school, to keep the bugs off.
We used to drink out of the garden hose, and the whole list that makes the rounds on internet.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
On 9/14/2013 9:44 PM, WW wrote:

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On 09/15/2013 06:22 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

What kind of childhood event causes people to top-post? :-)
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On 9/14/2013 6:47 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

"Freon" is pretty much like aspirin, xerox copy, kleenex, BX, Romex, ... All are brand names that are effectively generic now.

"Freon" can apply to all of them.
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I'm not normally on the computer at 6:23 AM but I had to take a sudafed for my congestion. Except that my sudafed was store brand. Sigh.
The daytime cough and cold mixture has a couple milligrams of freon mixed in, Tylenol you know.
This is a fun email. Might print it out, and make a couple freons. Before I blow my nose on a freon.
Finish wiring the house with freon, and need some of that sheathed freon to wire the cellar.
Stop at the gas station, and tank up with 87 freon, gosh, I'm getting tired of that freon word.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
On 9/15/2013 3:19 AM, bud-- wrote:

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