Tankless water heaters -- inneresting take.

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wrote:

Locally new homes have been prohibited due to lack of sewage capacity
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On 2/2/2013 11:45 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I don't know the answers to your questions. All I can tell you is the gas company refused my request to increase the capacity of my regulator and meter. I offered to pay for the upgrade. I'm stuck at 220,000 btus.
Not really I problem, I just have to manage my gas usage during a power outage.
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On replacing water heaters before they leak. I am 56:( and have wached gas water heaters fail since I was a little child. Average failure is around 9 years, historical average.....
not wanting the hassles of a leaking tank I replace mine at 8 years, it works for me:)
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BULLSHIT There is AMPLE capacity in cold regions to meet short-term demand NatGas is stored in "tank farms" just for that purpose Something you can NOT do with electricity. Which is why you have "brownouts" but not "gasouts"
But let's not let the facts get in the way of your igorance

NatGas stores extra gas in "tank farms" to balance out against peak demand Electrical systems do NOT have such ability. For electricity, you use it or lose it.

LOL Too bad there's a whole slew of other things that appear beyond your "understanding".

Indeed you are.

Far larger and denser than the US, both for Europe and Asia
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Attila Iskander wrote: .

Some do:
An Alaska electric co-op: The system, which comes in a 53-foot trailer, is built by Premium Power Corporation of North Reading, Mass., and can provide one-half megawatt of power and at least 4 hours of energy storage. KEA General Manager Brad Reeve says the co-op may also employ the system to help them use the wind energy more efficiently. Notes Reeve: "We'll be taking wind in, say, the summer, when the loads are low and we've got plenty of wind, and storing that in the battery to be used later, to time shift it to the peaking times of the day so we can keep diesel engines off line." https://remagazine.cooperative.com/Showcase/techcurve/Pages/201201AlaskaCo-opSeeksBalanceWithLargeBatterySystem.aspx
And another: "Alaskan utility Kodiak Electric Association (KEA)announced that it plans to install a 3 MW battery farm and management system made by Xtreme Power next to its large wind farm." http://gigaom.com/2012/04/10/a-growing-wind-farm-in-alaska-looks-to-batteries /
And another view: "The system was designed and supplied by the ABB Group. When a generator drops off, the system can provide up to 27 megawatts of power for 15 minutes. That is roughly the time needed to fire up another power plant. The system can also provide more electricity for shorter periods. For example, in one test, the system delivered 46 megawatts for five minutes." http://www.energybiz.com/magazine/article/265863/alaska-battery-breakthrough
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I'd love to see the economics of that. The last system for example can supply about 4MW for an hour. It would be interesting to see the true lifecycle cost and who really is paying for it. In my experience, deep cycle batteries don't last all that long either..... Also I think the essential point of the argument was that such a system is a very exceptional case. It involves a negligible amount of the total grid.
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# You're arguing against a stawman.
That was my point. It's a STUPID strawman
No need to even argue the rest.
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It's your scenario that is a total crock of shit About the ONLY place where people who be all electric is Quebec. But they are a net EXPORTER of electricity BECAUSE they have so much hydro-electric power generation capacity. So your scenario would actually fail there For the rest of the real world, since the odds of everyone producing hot water with electricity is BOGUS, so are your silly conclusions
Any idiot can come up with such extreme scenarios But only idiots spend their time arguing such absolutes.
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Not an absolute, buzzhead. A viability test. Tankless, as a default scenario (like our tanked is now), is simply not viable. It could be, with the right infrastructure, but the Q then is, SHOULD it be.... Answer: proly not. Oh, sorry, another strawman.... yeah, I know, too much for you.....
--
EA


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low pressure natural gas is actually high pressure from the source, saves having to use LARGE transmission lines.....
When I was a kid a natural gas main transmission line in crafton pa caused a mmulti block explosion and some people died. The line ran near our home. I used to spend my time watching the workers replace the line, they would chase us away when X raying the welds
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Sez you But considering all the stupid affirmations and attempts at strawman arguments, you have no credibility left

more blah,blah,blak

Clearly you are deeply into self-abuse I'll leave you to it.
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On 2/1/2013 5:50 AM, Attila Iskander wrote:

(and sh*t)...
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:25:34 -0600, "Attila Iskander"

Turn that around for a minute - and put the tank heater in the place of the tankless, and North America in place of Europe innyour arguement.
The tank heater has been in use twice as long in North America as the tankless has been in Europe

The plumbers should be laughing all the way to the bank. Maintenance costs are AWFULL.
Point of use water heaters are a different story - THEY actually make sense.
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Indeed, that's implicit

Surely you can support that claim with evidence.

Feel free to provide the evidence

Only if you go with prejudice and unfounded beliefs I'll leave you to it.
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On Fri, 1 Feb 2013 04:53:11 -0600, "Attila Iskander"

It's been posted MANY times before - and you can look it up for yourself

You can waste your money on a tankless. I won't.
Your choice, and mine. to make.
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Pay no mind to hissy li'l Attila. I suspect he gets the shit slapped out of him so often, he can no longer think straight.
Asking for evidence that a tankless system does not require more maintenance than tanked is like asking for proof that a fuel dragster doesn't get more engine overhauls than a commuter car. Or proof that perpetual motion machines don't work. People like this simply don't understand mechanics or physics -- which makes their short-tempered snippiness all the more laughable.
In the mega-facilities of my mega-employer, they have point-tankless all over the place. They all suck, half of them seem not to work at all. Altho you CAN hear a relay click.... LOL AND they are relatively new!!! And the water -- in a shitty li'l low-flo mini-sink -- is lukewarm. AND it draws 4 kW.....!!!! Holy shit....
--
EA



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On 01/31/13 10:25 am, Attila Iskander wrote:

Do you mean tankless for *central* water heating in Europe? I do recall some people having what was called a "Geyser" (trade name?) over the kitchen sink when I was a child in the UK, but I don't know whether they had any other hot-water supply for other rooms.
The only water heaters my family ever had were associated with an always-burning solid-fuel stove (an "Aga") or later a gas-fired boiler for central heating and hot-water supply, with an electric element in the storage tank for use in the summer.
Perce
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On 1/31/2013 12:58 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

I've noticed in pictures, a water heater inside the bathroom showers of places in Europe. It appeared to be an electric unit right above the shower head. ^_^
TDD
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On Thursday, January 31, 2013 11:22:11 AM UTC-8, The Daring Dufas wrote:

and the voltage is 220 volts in them there places.
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:10:08 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

BTW, 240V is available in the US, too.
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