On 2/2/2013 11:45 AM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
I don't know the answers to your questions. All I can tell you is the
gas company refused my request to increase the capacity of my regulator
and meter. I offered to pay for the upgrade. I'm stuck at 220,000 btus.
Not really I problem, I just have to manage my gas usage during a power
On replacing water heaters before they leak. I am 56:( and have wached
gas water heaters fail since I was a little child. Average failure is
around 9 years, historical average.....
not wanting the hassles of a leaking tank I replace mine at 8 years,
it works for me:)
There is AMPLE capacity in cold regions to meet short-term demand
NatGas is stored in "tank farms" just for that purpose
Something you can NOT do with electricity.
Which is why you have "brownouts" but not "gasouts"
But let's not let the facts get in the way of your igorance
NatGas stores extra gas in "tank farms" to balance out against peak demand
Electrical systems do NOT have such ability.
For electricity, you use it or lose it.
Too bad there's a whole slew of other things that appear beyond your
Indeed you are.
Far larger and denser than the US, both for Europe and Asia
An Alaska electric co-op:
The system, which comes in a 53-foot trailer, is built by Premium Power
Corporation of North Reading, Mass., and can provide one-half megawatt of
power and at least 4 hours of energy storage. KEA General Manager Brad Reeve
says the co-op may also employ the system to help them use the wind energy
more efficiently. Notes Reeve: "We'll be taking wind in, say, the summer,
when the loads are low and we've got plenty of wind, and storing that in the
battery to be used later, to time shift it to the peaking times of the day
so we can keep diesel engines off line."
"Alaskan utility Kodiak Electric Association (KEA)announced that it plans to
install a 3 MW battery farm and management system made by Xtreme Power next
to its large wind farm."
And another view:
"The system was designed and supplied by the ABB Group. When a generator
drops off, the system can provide up to 27 megawatts of power for 15
minutes. That is roughly the time needed to fire up another power plant. The
system can also provide more electricity for shorter periods. For example,
in one test, the system delivered 46 megawatts for five minutes."
I'd love to see the economics of that. The last system for example
can supply about 4MW for an hour. It would be interesting to see the
true lifecycle cost and who really is paying for it. In my
cycle batteries don't last all that long either..... Also I think
point of the argument was that such a system is a very exceptional
It involves a negligible amount of the total grid.
It's your scenario that is a total crock of shit
About the ONLY place where people who be all electric is Quebec.
But they are a net EXPORTER of electricity BECAUSE they have so much
hydro-electric power generation capacity.
So your scenario would actually fail there
For the rest of the real world, since the odds of everyone producing hot
water with electricity is BOGUS, so are your silly conclusions
Any idiot can come up with such extreme scenarios
But only idiots spend their time arguing such absolutes.
Not an absolute, buzzhead. A viability test.
Tankless, as a default scenario (like our tanked is now), is simply not
It could be, with the right infrastructure, but the Q then is, SHOULD it
Answer: proly not.
Oh, sorry, another strawman.... yeah, I know, too much for you.....
low pressure natural gas is actually high pressure from the source,
saves having to use LARGE transmission lines.....
When I was a kid a natural gas main transmission line in crafton pa
caused a mmulti block explosion and some people died. The line ran
near our home. I used to spend my time watching the workers replace
the line, they would chase us away when X raying the welds
On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:25:34 -0600, "Attila Iskander"
Turn that around for a minute - and put the tank heater in the place
of the tankless, and North America in place of Europe innyour
The tank heater has been in use twice as long in North America as the
tankless has been in Europe
The plumbers should be laughing all the way to the bank. Maintenance
costs are AWFULL.
Point of use water heaters are a different story - THEY actually make
Pay no mind to hissy li'l Attila. I suspect he gets the shit slapped out of
him so often, he can no longer think straight.
Asking for evidence that a tankless system does not require more maintenance
than tanked is like asking for proof that a fuel dragster doesn't get more
engine overhauls than a commuter car.
Or proof that perpetual motion machines don't work. People like this
simply don't understand mechanics or physics -- which makes their
short-tempered snippiness all the more laughable.
In the mega-facilities of my mega-employer, they have point-tankless all
over the place. They all suck, half of them seem not to work at all. Altho
you CAN hear a relay click.... LOL
AND they are relatively new!!!
And the water -- in a shitty li'l low-flo mini-sink -- is lukewarm. AND it
draws 4 kW.....!!!! Holy shit....
Do you mean tankless for *central* water heating in Europe? I do recall
some people having what was called a "Geyser" (trade name?) over the
kitchen sink when I was a child in the UK, but I don't know whether they
had any other hot-water supply for other rooms.
The only water heaters my family ever had were associated with an
always-burning solid-fuel stove (an "Aga") or later a gas-fired boiler
for central heating and hot-water supply, with an electric element in
the storage tank for use in the summer.
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