T 1-11 Siding application

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This same window thing happened to a woman I know. Was expensive to fix.
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I would agree with dadiOH. Tyvek is a wind barrier. It's irrelevant in your situation. If you don't generally heat the building then installing Tyvek would be a big job with no benefit. You need to replace the rotted T-111, which is cheap and easy to do. If necessary, deal with whatever might be causing the rot. If water gets in over the long term there will be rot. Tyvek won't stop that.
There's nothing wrong with T-111 over studs. I'm assuming you don't have insulation in the wall. Maybe the inside wall is wood paneling or some such? If you ever decided to upgrade the building you could use the T-111 as sheathing and put siding over it -- with or without putting Tyvek underneath. But Tyvek is only to stop drafts. It's not worth spending a lot of money on unless you use a lot of heat and you can wrap the whole building.
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There are no inside walls or insulation except for a tiny portion around the fireplace which my husband put in.
Originally he was going to make it for a place for his friends to come over and play poker in. But that never happened. So it's just for storage.
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On Friday, June 27, 2014 8:44:35 AM UTC-4, Mayayana wrote:

It's also a moisture barrier. It stops moisture from penetrating further into the wall cavity. Is it essential for a shed, no. But that doesn't mean that all it does is block wind.
It's irrelevant in your situation. If you don't generally

It's trivial to install Tyvek when installing siding. No one is suggesting that she rip off perfectly good siding to put in Tyvek, but if sections or even all the siding needs to be replaced, if I were building the shed, I'd put it in. On the other hand, if you're only going to live there 10 years and/or don't care, then you don't have to use it either.
You need to replace the rotted

It would stop the studs from being rotted. And maybe lessen the chance of the siding rotting. Which is worse? A wall cavity where water that gets past the siding goes deep inside? Or a wall cavity where the water hits the Tyvek and runs down, instead of going in?

Wrong again.
It's not worth spending a lot of

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On Thu, 26 Jun 2014 22:38:25 -0700, "Julie Bove"

People have been known to sue their home inspector, and those with a good case have won.
I don't know what all a home inspector is obligated to find, but surely some of these things.
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It's probably too late to do that. We bought this place nearly 10 years ago.
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wrote:

edges. Stain should protect the siding just fine.
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Hi Julie,

It is standard practice to install T-111 siding directly to the studs. It serves dual functions as structural sheathing and siding.
The most likely scenarios I can think of for the rot are:
1. The siding is too close to the ground. It should be at least 6" from the ground, or moisture and splashback from the ground will wick up the bottom of the sheets causing them to rot at the bottom.
2. There should be metal "z-flashing" anywhere you have a horizontal seam between sheets. This typically occurs on gable ends where you have siding in the triangular area in the gable above the normal siding. Without the flashing, water can run down the wall into the horizontal seam and inside the wall. The flashing ensures that any water that finds it's way into the seam is directed to the exterior of the building.
3. Trim around doors, windows, or other openings are not caulked or flashed properly.
4. The stain on the siding has not been maintained properly.
5. It's possible the T-111 siding is of poor quality. The stuff they used on our old mobile home was basically just particle board (not plywood or OSB) and was easily damaged by water. However, it can still perform well if it is flashed and maintained properly.

Tyvek (AKA house wrap) or tar paper are not really needed behind T-111 siding. Plywood siding typically has shiplapped edges that prevent water and air from entering at the vertical joints between sheets. It is also installed so that the sheet edges land on a stud, which would further reduce any water infiltration.

There's no reason to replace all of the siding. Just replace the sheets that are damaged.

The problem will only continue to get worse. Fix it now while it's still a small repair. Wait and it will cost you more in the future. Not to mention, moisture problems will attract insects, including ants and termites that can further damage the structure.
While it is wise to fix everything as soon as possible, you could always replace a sheet or two as time and money allows. I would start with the areas that are the most damaged and work towards the rest.

I live in Washington State also. We used rough sawn plywood (basically T- 111 without the grooves) when we built our house back in 2003/2004:
http://www.watsondiy.com/2003house.htm
Our siding is applied directly to the studs as yours is. 10 years later, stained with a semi-opaque stain every five years, and no sign of rot.
Take care,
Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com
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You did a HELLUVA job!!
Nice having an apparently knowledgeable co-worker too. My wife helps - fetches stuff...cleans grout sponges...holds while I nail...etc. - but has never quite grasped concepts :)
A question about your shower tile. I'm going to be doing one pretty soon, want to use black tile, preferably 6x6. It seems to be getting scarce; for example, I am told that Florida Tile has totally discontinued wall tile. What I CAN find is much more expensive per sq.ft. than floor tiles. OK, I could use the larger floor tiles, I don't mind cutting, but trim tiles can be scarce. And expensive.
I see that your shower wall tiles are butted to wood. All sides? If not, how did you handle the edge? Same question for the edge between the tub platform and black tile.
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dadiOH
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Thanks, we really enjoy it.

Yep, my wife loves to do construction work too. She doesn't always know the proper steps to take, but given a little instruction she'll be off and running on her own.
Unlike the stories I've heard from many couples, we had a great time building our house together. We also spent the last 10 years remodeling her parents house together. It helps that we have similar design tastes.

I can't say I've seen black tile locally, but I wasn't really looking for it either.
We looked at several tile stores, but ended up buying ours from Home Depot and Lowes. I think we got the green tile from Lowes, and the tan tile from Home Depot, but after ten years I'm not sure now. :) As with most things, those styles aren't available anymore. I did buy a few extra boxes of each tile to have on hand if we need to replace a tile in the future.

Yep, trim tiles (bullnose, etc.) were not available for the tiles we chose. It wasn't a huge problem since we were covering most of the edges with wood anyway.
For the shampoo bottle niche in the second bath, I used an angle grinder to round over the edges of the tiles. It actually worked rather well since the tile was nearly 1/4" thick.
I didn't do that with the tile on the edge of our master tub deck. Visually it looks fine, but there is a semi-sharp edge if you were to fall against it or something. It hasn't been an issue for us.

The tile extends out past the areas that get wet and butt into the drywall. Then I have cedar trim covering the seam.

There are quite a few detail photos in my old message thread on the John Bridge tile forum:
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t 876
Take care,
Anthony Watson www.mountainsoftware.com www.watsondiy.com
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On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 05:51:59 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband

BTW, T1-11 comes in at least two patterns, that is, the widths of the bands that make up the design. When I wanted a matching sheet to replace one that had cracked, HDepot didn't have that pattern but Lowes did, or vice versa. If they hadn't had it, I would have looked at lumber yards And I got exactly the same pattern.
IIRC, I had earlier needed a piece to rebuild the small privacy fence around the small front patio. I definitiely wanted that to match since it adjoined my next door neighbor's fence and there are matching fences all down the street. I found it at the first store I went to, but I think they didn't have it 10 years later. I think that means they changed suppliers, and all I had to do was find someone who used the same supplier. which turned out to be Lowes. Hmmm Actually neither Lowes nor HD existed when I bought my house or 10 years later, but that doesn't change the story

I agree with you, but FTR, my house doesn't have the flashing and there hasn't been any water damage, probably not even that one sheet (out of 6 similar ones) mentioned above. Maybe it has to do with which way the wind blows here or the trees that might stop the wind at the gable end of the house, or lots of other things, so I'm not saying that z-flashing shouldn't be installled**, just that one should not assume its absence is the problem. She should try to go quickly, but slow enough to figure out the actual problem.
**I didnt' know about Z-flashing until I read this post, so all I know is what I read in this post.
.....

Mine's 35 years old and in good condition except where,. during bad years, I didn't restatin it often enough.

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Micky,

That's a good recommendation to measure what spacing you have before you shop for replacements!
I have seen sheets with the grooves every 4" as well as the more common 8" spacing. I've even seen sheets with alternating 4" spacing and 8" spacing, though it has been a while since I've seen one of those.
I've also noticed variations in texture. Rough sawn seems to mean different things to different plywood companies. Thankfully, once it's stained or painted to match, the texture isn't as noticeable unless you have two different sheets butted up next to each other.
The original poster will also need to verify the thickness of the plywood before they buy replacements.

Sometimes the upper sheets on a gable end overlap the lower wall. That basically serves the same purpose to keep water out of the joint.

If you have decent roof overhangs and the gable isn't real tall, it's probably sheltered from the majority of the rain. It would only get wet when rain is blown at the wall and may have time to dry out in between.
It's also possible the joint is caulked?

Missing z-flashing is probably not a huge issue, but if no other explanation can be found it's something to look at.

We sprayed on our stain the first time (without backbrushing). Since it mostly just sat on the surface, it only lasted about five years before I had to restain. The second time around I used a roller to apply the stain. It took about the same amount of time, but the penetration and coverage was much nicer. It will be interesting to see if it lasts longer this time. So far it's not showing any signs of wear.
Anthony Watson www.mountainsoftware.com www.watsondiy.com
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Thanks, appreciated.
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dadiOH
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...snip...

Great video and nice pictures.
I love the open shower in the bathroom. Is there no toilet in that room?
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Thanks!

The toilet is behind the door on the right, as you walk into the master bath.
Our shower is 6'x6' with a shower head and valve on each wall of the back corner. The entire bathroom has a waterproofing membrane, so no door or shower curtain is needed.
We framed the shower floor 2" lower so the mud bed can slope down from the rest of the bathroom floor. This allows proper drainage without needing a curb to contain the water.
We built our house with the intent to stay here the rest of our lives. So we tried to design it with wheelchair access in mind. Single level home, 36" doors throughout, and no shower curb. We would still need to build a ramp on the exterior of the building if it ever comes to that, but the inside is mostly ready to go.
Anthony Watson www.mountainsoftware.com www.watsondiy.com
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| > I would agree with dadiOH. Tyvek is a wind barrier. | > | It's also a moisture barrier. It stops moisture from penetrating | further into the wall cavity. Is it essential for a shed, no. | But that doesn't mean that all it does is block wind. |
If it blocked moisture that would be a problem. The whole point is to let water vapor through while blocking wind. In a typical scenario there's a plastic vapor barrier on the inside. If Tyvek blocked moisture then any that got through would be trapped between the two layers. You'd have a mold farm in your insulation.
It's not only not essential for a shed. It would be a waste of work and money. You're just complicating the issue unnecessarily. If there's rot in the T-111 then it needs to be dealt with. Putting any moisture barrier behind it, on the outside of the studs, would be asking for more trouble.
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On Saturday, June 28, 2014 7:06:18 PM UTC-4, Mayayana wrote:

http://www.dupont.com/products-and-services/construction-materials/building-envelope-systems/brands/water-barrier-systems.view-all.hlm-product.html
"DuPont(tm) Tyvek(R) HomeWrap(R) is the original house wrap. It holds out air and bulk water, while allowing interior moisture vapor to escape, promoting drying within the wall systems, and helping prevent water damage and mold. "
The

In a typical scenario there's a plastic vapor

"DuPont(tm) Tyvek(R) HomeWrap(R) is the original house wrap. It holds out air and bulk water, while allowing interior moisture vapor to escape, promoting drying within the wall systems, and helping prevent water damage and mold. "
Note the part about "bulk water".

I didn't say it was essential. But it doesn't cost much and it's added protection. And at least I understand what Tyvek does. Feel free to admit you're wrong, or keep digging your hole, your choice.
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There is also a product from LP called SmartSide that looks very much like rough sawn T1-11 but is actually a composite material that is supposed to be insect and moisture resistant.
http://www.lpcorp.com/smartside/panel/
My shed kit came with siding and trim made with that material.
http://handyhome.com/marco-series/kingston8x8/
(I paid $250 for an open box kit at HD. After buying the flooring and roofing material (which isn't included in the kit) and a few extra studs to add sill plates (sill plates aren't used if the kit is built per the instructions, but I wanted the walls built the right way) my total cost was still less than just the kit itself if bought at the regular price.)
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On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 19:07:56 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband

Even when the deign is quite similar, I've seen two different designs.

Right. And different thicknesses.

Yeah, I checked. They do.

No. The overhang is just the thickness of a 1x6 and he gable varies from zero to 7 feet tall.

No.

For sure.

I used a roller and a long extension the first and only time. I sort of thought one of my next-door neighbor's would be gung ho siding, and we'd get the same thing so it matched, like we did with the roof. But no one has brought it up with any seriousness.

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| http://www.dupont.com/products-and-services/construction-materials/building-envelope-systems/brands/water-barrier-systems.view-all.hlm-product.html | | "DuPont(tm) Tyvek(R) HomeWrap(R) is the original house wrap. It holds out air and bulk water, while allowing interior moisture vapor to escape, promoting drying within the wall systems, and helping prevent water damage and mold. " | | I didn't say it was essential. But it doesn't cost much and it's | added protection. And at least I understand what Tyvek does. | Feel free to admit you're wrong, or keep digging your hole, your | choice.
So you advocate taking all of the T-111 off of the shed to put Tyvek underneath, despite that the shed is not normally heated (and doesn't even have an interior wall) in hopes that any water actually running under the T-111 will be prevented from getting through?
I simply can't see the sense in that. I also wouldn't depend on Tyvek to prevent water soaking through. (The term "bulk water" is ambiguous. I know that Tyvek will stop water flow, like a bucket of liquid water thrown at it. I'm not confident it would stop water soaking through to a stud in a scenario where the siding is staying wet. That sounds like creative marketing on the part of DuPont to me. They're exploiting peoples' fear of water damage with a vague and largely irrelevant claim. Water *flowing* around or under siding is a rare situation, and would be somewhat of an emergency. Tyvek underneath is not a cure for that. Tyvek's to stop wind. Siding is to stop water.) What about just dealing with the siding? Water shouldn't be getting through in the first place.
Hopefully Julie Bove, and anyone else dealing with a similar situation, can filter through all the responses here and come up with a good solution. All I can say is that I hope she doesn't take down her siding to put up Tyvek because I think that would be an expensive waste of time and money for absolutely no gain.
I guess that's a shortcoming of advice forums. When one doesn't have confidence in any one person to know the answer, one can end up with far too many answers and not enough solutions. :)
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