Swamp Cooler to Refrigeration A/C

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Hiya, Well I'm considering biting the bullet and changing out my swamp cooler for a refrigeration unit. Before I even bother with getting quotes, one question keeps nagging at me. Do these units use recirculated air from the house or are they pulling all the air from the outside? If they recirc, then I might as well not bother as there's really no viable (monetarily and aesthetically) way to add a return air duct to it. It's clear I don't have a good understanding of how these units work (I've been in swamp cooler land for 25 years!). Just curious. Thanks much, jlc
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James "Cubby" Culbertson wrote:

Do you have forced air heat system ?? If so, the AC fits within it and use same existing ducting. Yes, it recirculates inside air, otherwise would run continously and cost a fortune to operate. You normally close all doors and windows, which can be its own problem re "stale" air etc. I've had both systems; if swamper has been OK (ie dry climate like Denver), you won't like AC.
--reed
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Yup, I've got forced air. Trouble is, the Swamp cooler isn't located near the furnace. The furnace supply feeds the floors of the house while pulling from a couple large vents in the walls. My swamp cooler is on the ground not near one of these return grilles. So it looks like I'm SOL unless I want to do some major stuff. In terms of Swamp vs. Refrigerated, well that's a debate. I live in Albuquerque and the swamp cooler is OK but not great. The last few years has seen higher than normal humidities so at night it struggles. I'd prefer the refrigerated route but I'll make do with the swamp it looks like. Thanks much, jlc
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You might try a different configuration with better controls, eg turn on the swamp to cool recirculated house air when the indoor temp rises to 80 F and turn on a small exhaust fan when the indoor RH rises to 65%.
This works in Melbourne Australia...

Nick
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snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

Few use swamp coolers there.

Its a fucked approach with a swamp cooler, nowhere for the higher humidity that comes out of the cooler to get out of the house.

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I too had the impression that Melbourne (vs Perth) was too humid for swamp cooling, but I was wrong (have you ever been wrong? :-)

Reading more carefully, you might wonder what the exhaust fan does.

Then again, 22C is cool, but comfy (PMV = 0.007), with vel = 0.1 m/s and clo = 1 insulation. Raising vel to 0.5 and lowering clo to 0.5 makes 35 C at 65% comfy (slightly cool, with PMV = -0.54, on a scale from -3 = cold to +3 = hot), according to the BASIC program in the ASHRAE 55-2004 comfort standard, so he might have just used a ceiling fan on that day... 28C at 35% with clo = 0.5 and vel = 0.5 is "slightly warm" in the comfort zone, with PMV = 0.23.
Nick
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snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

When did you live in Melbourne?
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snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu wrote

They dont work very well there, which is why few bother with them.

Nope, never ever.

Not in Melbourne they dont.

'think' again.

No point in closing all the windows, stupid.

Presumably thats a typo and you mean 25C
Too cool for me.

A properly designed swamp cooler system can run with just the fan and no water, no need for extra ceiling fans.
Most think that 28C at 35% is too warm.
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: A properly designed swamp cooler system can run with : just the fan and no water, no need for extra ceiling fans.
If you're running it with a fan and no water, it's a ... fan. Swamp cooling relies on the fact that water evaporation cools nearby air. You pull outside air into the wet medium, and pump the cooler and more humid air through the house. It then exits the house through open windows (to the poster who recommended closing all the windows, that's going to completely undermine the whole thing).
    -- Andy Barss
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Duh.
Duh.
Duh. Pity that post was clearly suggesting ceiling fans IN ADDITION TO A SWAMP COOLER.

He's too stupid to be able to work that out for himself.
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anyone read Rex Robert's book? "Your Engineered House" advocates natural air flow. Low vents and high exit vents to promote the natural air flow as heat rises. We love ceiling fans too. And a light color for the roof. the garage sports a wind turbine. Cool!
--
If you see yourself in others, then whom can you harm?

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Crusader george wrote:

Swamp coolers only work in LOW humidity areas, and they rely on cheap access to water.
Desert Southwest is one such place.
The way to make them work better is to invest in a 1000psi to 2000psi water pump and pump the water thru very fine nozzles to create a fog of ultra fine water drops. These drops FLASH over to vapor phase when they touch almost anything. Restaurants in the Desert Southwest use this technique to allow patrons to eat dinner outside in the summertime. Water quality is a concern as the nozzles are so tiny. Reverse Osmosis filtration helps greatly with this issue, and minimizes the mineral residue (ultra distilled water would work even better, but is more costly)
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Robert Gammon wrote:

I just ran across this refrigeration AC unit last night:
http://partsonsale.com/sunchillsolo.htm
It looks promising ... don't know how much it costs though.
-tm
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Tobius wrote:

Answers
About $5K for the base unit. Plumbing to the house is very very similar to a Swamp Cooler as there is only a 1200CFM fan that blows air across the refrigerated coils. Low power, runs off 120V 7amps peak, averages about same as 100W light bulb. RUNS WITHOUT POWER for up to 3 hour, longer of an optional solar panel is attached. SEER is calcualted at 983, YES NINE HUNDRED EIGHTY THREE!!
Homeowner is resposible for distribution of the refiregerated air. In low humidity climates (less than 40% RH is the quoted figure), one unit will cool about 1000 SQ FT. In high humidity climates (80% RH is quoted) one unit will cool about 500 sq ft
Right now, I am sitting at 91F and for us a lower than normal RH of 44% Heat index is 94F
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Robert Gammon wrote:

The Solcool unit sounds like the two-stage evap coolers that were promised five years ago. For one reason or other none of the systems ever made it to large scale manufacturing. I see one big drawback for SoCool - the $5K price tag, which is about 10X the cost of a similar evap unit. I don't see them getting much demand on the retail side with prices like that.
One wholesaler told me the HVAC companies hate evap coolers because there is so little profit in them compared to regular systems. Maybe with the the higher price point, they'll start pushing these Solcool systems.
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Tim Killian wrote:

Agreed, in the Desert Southwest, where swamp coolers work well, they both cool the house and add needed moisture. This thing expands the envelope of applications outside the region where swamp coolers are sold.
The more valid comparison is to traditional AC units with which it is price competitive. It adds refrigeration to a swamp cooler. This is a very small refrigeration system, only about 1 pound of refrigerant is used, versus 7-15 pounds in most residential refrigeration AC units.
1200CFM is a typical fan volume in refrigeration AC systems of the same overall size class as this, they just do not recommend installing it in a ducted house for some reason. Efficiency is very high, exiting air temps are very low, air volume matches refrigeration, it looks better and better.
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Thats fine as long as the temp doesnt get too high.
Doesnt work anything like as well as a decent swamp cooler when you have 10 days over 40C/105F tho.

Not when you have 10 days over 40C/105F tho. Fucking hot in fact.
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"Then again, 22C is cool, but comfy (PMV = 0.007), with vel = 0.1 m/s and clo = 1 insulation. Raising vel to 0.5 and lowering clo to 0.5 makes 35 C at 65% comfy (slightly cool, with PMV = -0.54, on a scale from -3 = cold to +3 = hot), according to the BASIC program in the ASHRAE 55-2004 comfort standard, so he might have just used a ceiling fan on that day... 28C at 35% with clo = 0.5 and vel = 0.5 is "slightly warm" in the comfort zone, with PMV 0.23"
You are simply too much, at clo=butt naked, anyone enduring a dewpoint of about 81.5F is not going to be comfortable and would be seeking air conditioned space.
I endured a month of conditions similar to what you are postulating during a prolonged power outage after a Cat 5 storm, and with a small gen running ceiling fans and floor fans, it was no where near comfortable.
After I salvaged a small window shaker AC that the gen could run, I managed to pull the house down to 83F and 68% RH, about a 71.4F dewpoint and compared to what it was like before with an 81.5 dewpoint it felt good but it was still a far cry from comfortable.
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In a dry climate it is a bad idea to use evaporative cooling on recirculated air. It is more effective to directly cool the outside air, force this cooled air into the home and allow room air to exhaust outside. I proved this on your last flooded floor scenario, or was it the inverted pool of pine, the cool tower
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Huh?? An evaporative cooler has to start with dry air to cool it down by evaporating water into it. If you recirculate the air it will get too damp to cool. You will have a damp and hot area:)
Al
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