Supplying Water to Toilet from Gravity Feed Tanks

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Hi, I've installed a large tank in the yard, above the height of my toilet water closet. I'm filling the large tank with water from a sump pump. Problem is this: The gravity feed is very low pressure, so the regulator in the toilet water closet doesn't function using the gravity feed supply. However the regulator works fine when using the city supply for water. Is there anyway to adjust the regulator in the toilet water closet to work with very low pressure water supply?
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Install a pump to increase the pressure?
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Why are you using regulator
Greg
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I'm assuming that by "regulator" he means the "fill valve".
It "regulates" the amount of water that goes into the tank.
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I think your best bet would be to use a pump to pressurize the water in a cushion tank (that is, a tank with air trapped in the top of it), and shut the pump off with a pressure switch.
You'll need a sight glass on the tank to ensure it's not water logged, and a bleed valve and air vent so that you can recharge it with air if it ever gets water logged.
'Electrical - Eaton Canada | Pressure Switches' (http://tinyurl.com/mzbxsfz )
Eaton makes and sells a wide variety of industrial automation controls, like pressure switches.
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On Mon, 1 Jul 2013 05:50:01 +0200, nestork

Indeed. Something like this <http://www.homedepot.com/p/Flotec-1-2-HP-Shallow-Well-Jet-Pump-Combo-FP410515H/202246487#.UdFcrJHE09o>
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On Mon, 1 Jul 2013 05:50:01 +0200, nestork

gravity tank with 8-10 feet of head. The OP doesn't say how much head he has, or what sised hose he is feeding it with. 3 feet of head likely won't work, particularly through a 3/8 inch hose.
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Why don't you use a float valve, available to suit all pressures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Float_valve
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On Sunday, June 30, 2013 7:49:42 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I would expect you could find a toilet float valve that works with any pressure. Where are you posting from? The old school float on an arm ought to work. It's going to fill really slowly though.
http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/toilet-ballcock-assembly.jpg
If you are serious about using alternative water for the toilets I suggest you go ahead and get a pump, a pressure tank, pressure switch, and a check valve. You could use fairly small components if all you are going to use it for is toilets.
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On Monday, July 1, 2013 9:36:23 AM UTC-4, jamesgang wrote:

Just curious...
Why would an old fashioned ballcock assembly work with less pressure than one of the more modern float style?
Whether the ball is down or the float is down, shouldn't whatever valve is at the top of the tube be open? I thought the valve was opened mechanically by virtue of the ball/float being in the "down" position. How does the water pressure enter into that?
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On Monday, July 1, 2013 9:15:14 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

> > > Problem is this: > > > > > > The gravity feed is very low pressure, so the regulator in the toilet water closet doesn't function using the grav ity feed supply. However the regulator works fine when using the city suppl y for water. > > > > > > Is there anyway to adjust the regulator in the toi let water closet to work with very low pressure water supply? > > > > I wou ld expect you could find a toilet float valve that works with any pressure. Where are you posting from? The old school float on an arm ought to work. It's going to fill really slowly though. > > > > http://static.ddmcdn.com/g if/toilet-ballcock-assembly.jpg > > > > If you are serious about using alte rnative water for the toilets I suggest you go ahead and get a pump, a pres sure tank, pressure switch, and a check valve. You could use fairly small c omponents if all you are going to use it for is toilets. Just curious... Wh y would an old fashioned ballcock assembly work with less pressure than one of the more modern float style? Whether the ball is down or the float is d own, shouldn't whatever valve is at the top of the tube be open? I thought the valve was opened mechanically by virtue of the ball/float being in the "down" position. How does the water pressure enter into that?
That's what I would have thought, but I have never actually tried it with l ow pressure water.
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DerbyDad03;3086695 Wrote: >

> than one of the more modern float style?

> is at the top of the tube be open? I thought the valve was opened > mechanically by virtue of the ball/float being in the "down" position. > How does the water pressure enter into that? Derby Dad:
I expect that if the boyancy force of the float was ever used to shut off water flow into the toilet tank, then that kind of plumbing hardware went obsolete back in the 1950's.
So far as I know, with every kind of toilet fill valve that has a float, the movement of the float serves only to push or pull a plug out of a rubber diaphragm that sits over the port where water enters the toilet tank.
City water pressure is applied to both sides of a rubber diaphragm that sits directly above an opening through which water flows to enter the toilet tank. But, because that pressure acts on a larger area on the top side of that diaphragm than on the bottom side, there's a net force holding the diaphragm tightly over that opening, thereby preventing water flow out of it.
When you flush the toilet, as the water level and float drop, a mechanical linkage pulls a plug out of the large area side of the diaphragm, releasing the water pressure above the diaphragm.
The city water pressure on the small area side them pushes the diaphragm off it's seat, and water flows under the diaphragm into the toilet tank.
Once the toilet tank fills to the point where the float rises, that same mechanical linkage pushes the plug back into the diaphragm, and as the pressure builds up above the diaphragm, the net force pushes the diaphragm down over the inlet, thereby stopping the flow of water into the toilet tank.
So, the movement of the float doesn't directly control the flow of water like the movement of the stem in a cartridge does. Instead, the movement of the float is only used to plug or unplug a hole on the large area side of the diaphragm, and it's the city water pressure itself that forces the diaphragm up or down to allow or prevent water flow into the toilet tank.
The advantage of this way of doing things is that there's less chance of your basement being flooded by a runaway toilet. If the float ever leaks and becomes water logged, it loses it's buoyancy force, but it's weight (underwater) isn't sufficient to pull the plug out of the hole. With a float system controlling the water flow, a leaking float could result in a flooded house.
PS: The water supply valves on clothes washing machines and dish washers use precisely this same principle to allow the flow of hot, cold and both hot and cold water into those appliances. The only difference is that it's a brass coated steel plug with a rubber tip on it sitting inside a coil of wire that plugs or unplugs the hole in the large area side of the diaphragm. When electric power is applied to that coil of wire, the magnetic field pulls the plug out, and when the coil is de-energized, a spring pushes that plug back to plug that hole again. Still it's not the rubber tipped plug that's actually controlling the water flow; it's the movement of the rubber diaphragm caused by the net force on the diaphragm. The movement of the rubber tipped plug simply releases the pressure on the large area side of the diaphragm to get the valve to open when you want water flow. This is why, for example, you can pull the electrical plug on a washing machine, and not have the washer fill up with water. It's because it's not electrical power that's stopping water flow into the washer, it's a spring pushing a plug into place, and the citry water pressure itself is preventing flow into the washer.
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On Mon, 1 Jul 2013 17:25:33 +0200, nestork

easily found. Hoover makes one - I think Rona carries it.
Watts Canada makes the "governor 80" ballcock that halso contains an anti-siphon and an overpressure release.
Kohler still makes the ball type ballcock as well., as does Mansfield.
JAG makes one sold by home despot.SKU: 1000756670
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On Monday, July 1, 2013 11:25:33 AM UTC-4, nestork wrote:

Maybe he could modify a float valve to make it open easier with lower pressure. Most toilets have a overflow pipe in them as well for protection.
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On Monday, July 1, 2013 11:25:33 AM UTC-4, nestork wrote:

Thanks for the explanation.
Wouldn't the overflow tube shuttle the water into the bowl where it's own weight would override the trap preventing the "flood" that you speak off?
Most of us have experienced toilet valves that have not shut off but very few of us have experienced flooded houses due to that malfunction.
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DerbyDad03 used improper usenet message composition style by unnecessarily full-quoting AND double-spacing:

Did you post that during your break or lunch time at 2:39 pm from your workplace computer at Dean Witter Financial Services in NYC?
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>

> own weight would override the trap preventing the "flood" that you speak > off?

> very few of us have experienced flooded houses due to that malfunction.
Yep, water filling the toilet tank SHOULD go down the overflow tube as you say.
However, my experience is that most people never give the hole in the tank for the trip lever a second thought, and if you were to overflow most toilet tanks, the water will drain out the trip lever hole before it even gets close to the top of the overflow spout. So, in my experience, if you have a toilet tank that doesn't stop filling, make sure your overflow spout is below the elevation of the hole for your trip lever.
Most people just make sure the overflow spout is above the recommended fill line by a good inch or so. That's not enough. It needs to be above the recommended fill line, but still below the hole for the trip lever, and often the fill line and the trip lever hole are within 3/4 inch of each other, so you don't have much wiggle room.
Maybe go check your toilet.
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I guess your experience is unlike anyone else's experience that I have run across. I have never seen a continuously running toilet that filled up enough to have the water come out of the lever hole - residential or otherwise. I guess I, and everyone else I know, has been lucky that their overflow tube was unknowingly below the lever hole.
I hope we get some responses from members who had experienced overflow through the lever hole. I want to feel even luckier, knowing that it is a fairly regular occurrence.

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On Mon, 1 Jul 2013 11:39:31 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

Right. The water from a runaway toilet valve just runs into the toilet bowl and out the rear of it.
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Fortunately, yes, the excess water goes down the drain.
I had a water valve go bad, on my washing machine. Fortunately for me, the water (hot, sadly so) went down the drain. My natural gas bill went up that month. . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .

Thanks for the explanation.
Wouldn't the overflow tube shuttle the water into the bowl where it's own weight would override the trap preventing the "flood" that you speak off?
Most of us have experienced toilet valves that have not shut off but very few of us have experienced flooded houses due to that malfunction.
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