Sump pumps -- GFCI required?

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On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 09:17:02 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Just another example of using rules which were originally intended for safety to get their hands into your wallet and fill their own pockets. They know that some people will actually be stupid enough to buy the permit. But think about this.... How are they going to know if you replaced an outlet or switch??? Unless they have detailed photos of every room in your home, they wont even know if you change a light fixture.
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On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 15:16:41 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@unlisted.moc wrote:

I changed all the switches and outlets to CoALR before the inspection but did not install the GFCIs because electrician said I didn't need to (very recent change) - so I needed a permit to get the re-inspection. First inspector was very understanding and granted me a no fee permit and no re-inspection fee.
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On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 16:44:12 -0500, "Robert Green"

You have to be careful when you look at just anything that pops on a Google search. Those exceptions were eliminated in 2008.
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<stuff snipped>

Indeed. Looking more closely that article appears to be from 2002. My bad.
So does that mean a sump pump *has* to be on a GFCI? I can see some seriously bad results arising from putting a sump pump (or a refrigerator) on a GFCI. Having said that, I haven't had a nuisance trip from a GFCI in quite some time and I now wonder if the refrigerator that was causing the trips wasn't actually suffering from real current leakage.
--
Bobby G.

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On Saturday, December 12, 2015 at 5:47:33 AM UTC-5, Robert Green wrote:

If it's in an unfinished basement, yes.
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On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 05:31:09 -0500, "Robert Green"

Just a real light coating of dust, absorbing a minor amount of moisture on the compressor start cap will trip the GFCI.(particularly if it is a metal can) Older fridges and frezers had metal can caps.
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On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 05:31:09 -0500, "Robert Green"

I have investigated a couple of these refrigerators that trip GFCIs and they do have internal shorts in the compressor. I put them on a 2 to 3 adapter, the old one with the pigtail and put a scope with a current probe on the pigtail. There is definitely current spiking on the ground. It is not enough to trip a breaker but it does trip the GFCI If you cut open the freon line, you will smell the burnt freon.
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Yeah these are the old rules. Most of the exceptions have been eliminated in the 2011 and 2014 code updates.
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On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 03:51:55 -0800 (PST), John G

I dont have the recent code so I cant know for sure if this Exemption was eliminated. And I did work for an electrician years ago, so I do support following the code. But I think the code has gone overboard in recent years and some of their rules are senseless nit-picking, and a few are downright wrong.
If a GFCI is now required on a sump pump, THIS is WRONG..... Granted, safety for people should come above and beyond protecting property, but there are situations where they need to look at common sense. This is one of them. A person is more likely to get electrocuted in a flooded basement, than one that is not flooded, because a sump pump is keeping the basement dry.
When I lived in a house that had a sump pump, I ALWAYS UNPLUGGED IT, when I was doing maintanance on it, such as cleaning the pit. Whenever an electrical cord enters water, a person should uplug the cord before contacting the water. That's just common sense. Yet, it seems our schools dont teach stuff like that anymore, and we now live in a society full of idiots..... That apparently is why the code keps getting changed.
However, there are two instances where I will NOT use a GFCI. A Refrigerator/freezer and a Sump Pump. You can move the fridge to a place that dont require a GFCI, but you cant move a sump pump. However, there are cheating methods. You can get a 14ga (or heavier) extension cord and plug the sump pump into an outlet located on the first floor of the house, rather than in the basement. Or just install a non-GFCI outlet on the ceiling above the pump, label it "SUMP PUMP ONLY - DO NOT UNPLUG", and if the inspectors come, tell them it was like that when you moved in. It's not like they are going to put you in jail for it. The worse they can do is make you install a GFCI. Many inspectors wont even notice it, if your electrical system is in decent shape.
I'm not going to risk flooding my basement over a code rule that is not in the best interest, and should be changed.....
Sometimes consumers need to speak up as well as electricians when it comes to these codes. Just because it's written in a book, dont mean it's correct....
--

I should make mention that many years ago, I lived in a house that was
prone to basement flooding. After a heavy rain, that sump pump ran
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On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 15:07:56 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@unlisted.moc wrote:

On the ceiling? Why the ceiling? That's 7 feet from my pump.

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wrote:

Very common proctice - to keep it out of the wet, prevent other loads from being connected to the circuit, and prevent having to rout cords across the floor and up walls to an outlet.
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On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 22:02:30 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Okay, if you say so. Our basement when I was little was wet a lot and the big room wasn't used for anything. I wonder if it has a sump pump yet, or if they did anythign to keep it dry in the first place.
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