Stuck Water Meter

[trader4]

That wasn't the point. I don't think anyone would think there is a snowball's chance in hell of a water company somehow reading the gears of a failed water meter, where the visible digits stopped turning, to determine the actual water usage. The point was that the OP got an unqualified NO to the question he was asking and just accepted that, because it was the answer he was looking for, without even considering the qualifications of the respondent. That's all he wanted, any answer, to green light taking all the free water he can.

[Chet Kincaid]

Review what I said. I didn't say it was an accurate answer. Not being skilled in this field (which is the reason to seek an answer anyway) I can only review what has been said and weigh its plausibility. The reason I said it was the first real answer is because, well, it's the first real answer. No other responses actually answered the question. This morning a couple of more responders have.

As for getting the answer I want, yes, I would hope my original conjecture, that it's either impossible or far too much trouble, to get a reading out of the underlying mechanism was correct. Everyone desires to be correct. There was always a small chance that someone who knows these things would say that underneath the remote sender head there is something that is easily read. That may be wrong but it's not totally implausible to someone unfamiliar with what's inside.

[Chet Kincaid]

It's a reasonable point which people may debate but it's certainly not unusual for people to water their lawn. Some even have underground systems.

I would be curious if it has declined just because of the poor economy plus restrictions as you mention below in some areas.

Nah...no restrictions here. In fact they just built a new treatment plant a few years ago. They get water from a network of wells and soften it.

[bob haller]

utility systems rountinely have leaks of all sorts that go unmeasured and unpaid for. i have reported water and even gas leaks that never got fixed...

i was told that some leakage was normal.. and to be expected.

the gas leak from a exposed gas line was in a large open field and they said given its size ( small ) and open terrain they werent concerned. i reported to the local paper and years later it was still leaking.

i read once that the pittsburgh water system losses over 12% ofall terated water to leaks... thats a lot.

but the cost to fix those leaks would be in the millions, so its cheaper to just let most leak......

all business have overhead, i guess leaks are considered overhead and a cost of doing business......

meter readers who used to uncover theft of services have been elminated here, so i uess they saved enough to tolerate thieves.

a electric meter reader uncovered theft noting house all lit up, AC running meter not moving.......

meter readers had uses beyond just reading meters

[George]

A lot of it is "lets force something to grow unnaturally so we can impress the neighbors". Most grasses know exactly what to do when there is less water available. We have a mix of natural for the area landscaping and a lawn area. We have never watered the lawn and never will.

[krw]

Because you don't, doesn't mean others won't. It's far easier to take care of a healthy lawn than a lot of weeds.

Oh, gotta remember to turn the irrigation system on for the morning.

[Chet Kincaid]

That's marvelous but I have no interest in debating the morality of growing grass.

[Chet Kincaid]

No, but that's a very poor analogy and I've tried to figure out ways to make it work but I can't. Vending machine contents have a non-trivial cost, are always counted (measured) and I presume do not have huge distribution losses. 10% loss in municipal water systems is typical is what I saw on some web site.

(It's hard to not let reality intrude on your scenario. Let's say your hypothetical vending machine is at an unattended highway rest stop. As I did notify them I suppose they might have asked me to unplug it.)

I can only make the analogy work if I think of soda cans, candy bars, and packages of pretzels flying along conveyors at a rate of thousands per minute with 10% falling off the conveyors here and there in ways the vendor has decided are too much trouble to repair. I myself would normally be consuming them at a rate of many dozens a day. Under that scenario, if the counting machine was not working and I could put a bit more to good use without cost, yes, maybe I would.

But like I said, it's a rather poor analogy. The only ones that work are basically the same situation but with a different commodity. Your gas meter is stuck; it won't be repaired for a week. Do you turn on the pool heater to make the water more comfortable when you normally don't? A good analogy but it mimics the situation so closely that nothing is learned from it.

[krw]

Or of theft, apparently.

[Grumpy]

"YEP"

[Chet Kincaid]

No, that's not applicable at all. The utility is aware; in fact they notified us, in writing, no less, that this was very likely happening. The fact that they didn't go to the trouble of sending someone out either right after they got their zero reading or at least when I called to confirm that, no, we had not been away, suggests their consent to leave the malfunction in place for over a week total.

The clear intention of that part of Cali law is when there is an ILLEGAL by-passing or rigging of metering equipment that someone takes knowing advantage of even though they themselves didn't do it. An attempt to apply it to someone taking advantage of a utility equipment malfunction known by the utility--I think that would get laughed out of court. Sort of like the person who moves into a new apartment and discovers they have working cable tv.

Even if extra usage could be proved (which apparently it cannot), a successful prosecution would need to prove that such extra use stemmed from the malfunction not my choice to respond to the extreme heat we have had lately. This discussion aside, they'd not be able to prove that.

And I can say truthfully, if it wasn't for the heat, I would not have bothered with the labor involved, free water or not. I've not washed my car for "free"; I'm too lazy.

[Chet Kincaid]

To put a followup into the record, today a bill arrived with a zero reading. The water portion (they also bill for sewer and for the commercial trash / recycling / yard waste hauler) still had an amount but it was about a quarter what the charge was back in winter. Maybe that's their base charge. If they do any averaging maybe it will show up next time but I think maybe they won't waste their time. A cost of doing business just like leakage.

The meter was changed out late last week and with pipe unions on each side I am told the tech was in and out in under ten minutes.