Stubborn valve stems

[harryagain]

I haven't tried soaking them with anything yet, but some kind of penetrating fluid or Lime-Away come to mind. I tried putting pressure on them and tapping with a hammer but can't budge either one. I also thought about hitting them with a torch but I'm a little worried about catching wood on fire and not being able to get a wet rag being the tile -- or having to spray water inside the wall and creating another problem.

Anyway, I hate to call a plumber for something that should be a Joe homeowner job but may end up doing that. Any ideas on what else to try first?

They were put in about 17 years ago when I had the galvanized piping replaced with copper. Never leaked until just now.

You all know what these things look like, but just for fun, here they are...

Guv Bob

What you need is a tubular spanner. (Piece of pipe with the end forged to fit various nuts.) You can get these for very great depths.

They may call them something else in the USA.

[DerbyDad03]

It's been a while since I tore out that style of valve and installed a single handle, anti-scald valve, but...

If memory serves me correctly and this image is correct, you want to remove the nut that you labeled as a "bushing", which it is not.

[micky]

I used to know the answer to this, and I will again some day.

I think the "bushing" is to replace the packing around the stem and the ? is to replace the washer. And that to replace the washer, you don't have to unscrew the so-called bushing. But I could easily be wrong.

Unless someone says the same thing more convincingly, go to HD or Lowes, find such a valve and take it apart. When you have your answer, put it back together and back in the box. If you have to cut the strap that is around the box, I give you permission, as long as you put everything back nice. If the box won't stay shut anymore, show it to a clerk, or bring some big rubber bands, or twine.

Sometimes when you've removed the ? and try to put this all back together, the stem and the washer will hit bottom before the ? is completely screwed in. Then you have to "turn on the water", back out the stem so you can screw the ? in farther.

The "threads " are the threads the ? screws into.

[TimR]

Sometimes you have to have the right words to explain to the experts what you want.

I've just disassembled mine and I had a similar problem, though my hardest part was getting the handle off.

At any rate, there are two nuts: packing nut, and bonnet nut.

It looks to me like maybe your packing nut already came off. Sometimes they stick to the escutcheon.

Your bonnet nut is the one you've labeled bushing. That needs to unscrew. Mine needed the special tool from the hardware store, and the first one (multiple size) didn't fit, I had to go back and buy the set.

You need to get the right size. If you round the bonnet nut, you're done. You have to break open the wall and start over.

The tool (like a long deep socket) comes with a bar to turn it. They are never long enough. You always need a cheater bar for the leverage.

Good luck.

Uh, did I mention turn off the water first?

[TimR]

Yup, that's it. Stem nut or bonnet nut.

But there's no way he's going to turn his with just a screwdriver for leverage. These things are in tight, usually with some pipe dope that's turned to concrete by now.

[NotMe]

I haven't tried soaking them with anything yet, but some kind of penetrating fluid or Lime-Away come to mind. I tried putting pressure on them and tapping with a hammer but can't budge either one. I also thought about hitting them with a torch but I'm a little worried about catching wood on fire and not being able to get a wet rag being the tile -- or having to spray water inside the wall and creating another problem.

Anyway, I hate to call a plumber for something that should be a Joe homeowner job but may end up doing that. Any ideas on what else to try first?

They were put in about 17 years ago when I had the galvanized piping replaced with copper. Never leaked until just now.

You all know what these things look like, but just for fun, here they are...

{{{

You can remove the entire assembly to put in a vice or replace as a unit.

We just purchased a new (to us) house. The hose bibs were old and in bad shape. Not sure but the replacement cost us ~$30 bucks each.

Replacement was jack simple and in the long run less expensive than a repair.

Only caution is to not over toque on removal or replacement.

[NotMe]

Air tool oil is finer and tens to work better/faster

[TimR]

This is a shower valve. It's deep inside a wall behind plaster and tile; there is nothing jack simple about this job. He might end up replacing it, but there's a good chance he can just pull the stem and replace the washer.

[Retired]

Here is a YouTube video that steps you thru the whole process, including replacing the valve seat if necessary.

Sometimes the seats are either non-removeable , or corroded in place. There is a tool to grind the seat in place, if necessary

[The Daring Dufas]

I used a valve seat cutter on my tub/shower valves then had to add thin brash washers as spacers because of the amount of material removed to get a clean seat that would seal. ^_^

TDD

[DerbyDad03]

It was an "O-ring" until he went to the store and a "washer" after he got back. Looks like he got a terminology lesson while at the store. ;-)

If it were me, I wouldn't have installed the stem flange until I tested the fixture. He may have stopped the leak to the shower head, but he could have a leak inside the wall.

One other issue...He managed to complete a plumbing job without taking all parts to the store and he apparently did it in one trip. Obviously, the video is a work of fiction. ;-)

[TimR]

In my 60 years, I have never done that, not even once. I consider a 3 trip job an accomplishment, rarely I've managed a two tripper, but a one trip job has evaded me.

[hrhofmann]

are starting to leak. I'm having a heck of time getting a wrench on these suckers. I haven't tried soaking them with anything yet, but some kind of p enetrating fluid or Lime-Away come to mind. I tried putting pressure on the m and tapping with a hammer but can't budge either one. I also thought abou t hitting them with a torch but I'm a little worried about catching wood on fire and not being able to get a wet rag being the tile -- or having to sp ray water inside the wall and creating another problem. Anyway, I hate to c all a plumber for something that should be a Joe homeowner job but may end up doing that. Any ideas on what else to try first? They were put in about

17 years ago when I had the galvanized piping replaced with copper. Never l eaked until just now. You all know what these things look like, but just fo r fun, here they are... Guv Bob

What is on the other side of the wall, the back of a closet, perhaps? That would make it very simple to cut out a piece of wall to access the valve w ith a propane torch, to remove the whole valve and then make the repairs.

[Guv Bob]

Thanks to all the great advice here at alt.home.repair, some videos online, and the helpful hardware folks at Ace & Home Depot, I was able to replace stems & seats in these two shower valves for about $45 in parts and tools. Time including taking the photos was about 45 minutes, plus trips to the store.

I really appreciate all the help you fellers dished out. Here are some snap flash photos and the diagram that came with the stem...

I had some tools already. Got the seat wrench $10 and nipples $3 at Ace Hardware, and steel rod $4 at Home Depot. Originally went to Ace Hardware - a little more $$ but always extremely helpful. But I had to return the Ace brand stems & seats ($19) because I could not get the stems to stop wobbling when turning the knob. Also, the seat threads did not match my valve. Bought the Price Pfister stems at Home Depot for $13 each and reused the good seats.

If I had to do it over, I would have saved a lot of time if I had bought some earplugs. Some of you married fellers know what I'm talking about.

Once I had everything, the entire job took about an hour including, setting things out, cleaning up, shutting off/draining/turning back on the water. This was taking my time and being extra careful not to break anything. If I did this regularly and had the parts & tools on hand, it would have been 1/2 hour max for start to finish as long as no other parts needed replacing and I was wearing earplugs the whole time.

Even so, I still would have rather had a plumber or handyman do it. Here's the plumber story....

I got a good referral and that plumber estimated $80 plus parts if he could do it from the shower. If he had to cut open the wall behind and replace the valve, an additional $120 to the labor. But he is a one man business and was booked for several days.

Then I called another plumber who had done work on the street. He wouldn't give me the minimum cost for a service call or an estimated range for this type of job. Not a good sign, but the $25 to come out for an estimate I thought was reasonable.

This estimate turned out to be $269 for one stem replacement and $200 for the 2nd one if he did not have to open the wall. I told him that was way too much and would pay him the $25. He came back with a discount making it $310 total.

Even so, the $25 was worth hearing him tell me that would not need to open up the wall, and if I did it myself, I would need a special tool to remove the seat. Nice young feller, overpriced company.

Between this and a recent estimate for a tuneup at the car shop, evidently the service & repair business is the place to be working right now. Time to restock my tool chest, clean out the van and hang a sign on it "I REPAIR ANY THANG ANY WHURS". LOL!!

[hrhofmann]

Anyone looking for a good steady job that can't be exported to China or India need only look into going into the repair business.

[Stormin Mormon]

be exported to China or India need only look into going into the repair business.

I'm in the repair business. it's not good, or steady. Thanks to over regulation under O.

[TomR]

Great follow-up info. Thanks for posting it. And, excellent photos and captions on the photos (which I don't know how to do).

Glad it all worked out.

[Guv Bob]

online, and the helpful hardware folks at Ace & Home Depot, I was able to replace stems & seats in these two shower valves for about $45 in parts and tools. Time including taking the photos was about 45 minutes, plus trips to the store.

some snap flash photos and the diagram that came with the stem...

Ace Hardware, and steel rod $4 at Home Depot. Originally went to Ace Hardware - a little more $$ but always extremely helpful. But I had to return the Ace brand stems & seats ($19) because I could not get the stems to stop wobbling when turning the knob. Also, the seat threads did not match my valve.

bought some earplugs. Some of you married fellers know what I'm talking about.

setting things out, cleaning up, shutting off/draining/turning back on the water. This was taking my time and being extra careful not to break anything. If I did this regularly and had the parts & tools on hand, it would have been 1/2 hour max for start to finish as long as no other parts needed replacing and I was wearing earplugs the whole time.

Here's the plumber story....

could do it from the shower. If he had to cut open the wall behind and replace the valve, an additional $120 to the labor. But he is a one man business and was booked for several days.

wouldn't give me the minimum cost for a service call or an estimated range for this type of job. Not a good sign, but the $25 to come out for an estimate I thought was reasonable.

for the 2nd one if he did not have to open the wall. I told him that was way too much and would pay him the $25. He came back with a discount making it $310 total.

open up the wall, and if I did it myself, I would need a special tool to remove the seat. Nice young feller, overpriced company.

evidently the service & repair business is the place to be working right now. Time to restock my tool chest, clean out the van and hang a sign on it "I REPAIR ANY THANG ANY WHURS". LOL!!

Good idea. Seems like these flanges ought to come with at least a rubber gasket or o-ring. I was expecting to get a whiff of mold from the holes in the wall, but they smelled OK. Looks like the drip inside found it's way outside to the shower - lucky for me.

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, In a "throw away when broken consumer world" what to repair? But I guess it depends what kinda repair job? I work on vintage tube musical amps for a hobby not to make money. It keeps my brain working and keeps me busy. When repaired and made it sound like what the owner(player) wanted, his smile of satisfaction makes my day. Of course my time and labor is free. Only needed material cost is charged. Wife is telling me, I shouldn't do this 'cause I rob repair shop's business,LOL! I do same with computers, appliances,etc. for my neighbors, friends.

[Stormin Mormon]

out. Here are some snap flash photos and the diagram that came with the stem...

and nipples $3 at Ace Hardware, and steel rod $4 at Home Depot. Originally went to Ace Hardware - a little more $$ but always extremely helpful. But I had to return the Ace brand stems & seats ($19) because I could not get the stems to stop wobbling when turning the knob. Also, the seat threads did not match my valve.

each and reused the good seats.

time if I had bought some earplugs. Some of you married fellers know what I'm talking about.

hour including, setting things out, cleaning up, shutting off/draining/turning back on the water. This was taking my time and being extra careful not to break anything. If I did this regularly and had the parts & tools on hand, it would have been 1/2 hour max for start to finish as long as no other parts needed replacing and I was wearing earplugs the whole time.

Did you use any penetrating oil? Which one? Did it appear to help?