Structural stupidity - input please

[Ray]

I have a multi level townhouse which I am renovating as the housing prices are ridiculous where I live. One thing that bothered me about the place is that there was a sag in the kitchen floor. I had planned to either put down some ceramic tile or perhaps hardwood flooring, but, with the sag, I would have to level the floor somehow. The easier option would be to use some sort of levelling compound, but, I decided to investigate the possibility of lifting the floor from below. I gained access to a crawlspace which allowed me to view the area under the kitchen. As it turns out, the wall between the kitchen and dining room as well as the master bedroom wall upstairs lie on a 14 foot cantilevered beam 32 inches out from the foundation. No wonder the floor is sagging.

My options seem to be as follows:

1. Ignore the problem, fill in the sag, put down flooring.

1. Jack the beam up and put in a support in the garage.

Option 1 would seem to result in problems down the road. Option 2 would cut useable car storage space. The difference between the location of the upstairs walls and the foundation is 32 inches.

Help.

Ray

[Phisherman]

#2 is the no-brainer. #1 is just ignoring the problem. Another option would be to sister the beam or replace it with a steel beam if you don't want a support pole.

[Ray]

[B]

I can't quite picture the problem, but I can say that laminated wood beams even stronger than the wooden I-beams you mentioned. Steel is too hard to work with and too hard to order... what if you order it one inch too long? It's a lot easier and cheaper to way-the-hell over design the solution than to hire an engineer, but I am not telling you not to get an engineer. One problem could be that the floor won't necessarily simply jack back up without cracking something somewhere because it has been in the sagged position for some time.

-B

[Antigen]

Exactly the problem I have in my home. The prior owners did an addition that required a foundation addition. That caused the main center beam to drop before they detected and stopped the drop. Then they spent 50 years putting in remodeling with several floors in sagging condition. Raising the floors to original levels is a compromise. They can't go all the way back and the rennovations can't stay perfect. It's a judgment call, pushing everything to the point where it is neither very noticeable nor very perfect.

[EL]

My preference would be to use a steel beam. I can't picture what you have from your description but if all you need is to support a 14 ft span it should be pretty straight forward. Just remember that steel should be wrapped with at least 2 layers of Durock of drywall, or imbedded in concrete. Unlike wood, which smolders and chars but doesn't loose strength rapidly in a fire, steel retains its strength until it becomes plastic and then looses strength rapidly so it needs to be shielded from fire.

I have three wide flange beams in my house, the longest being a little over 30 ft. My garage is two story, 2 cars over 2 cars and the floor is supported with 2, 26 ft WF beams. I use steel every time I can since it doesn't require intermediate supports. Don't be afraid of it.

Boden

Ray wrote:

[David Babcock]

Slowly jack the floor towards its intended and correct position. You'll probably get cracks in the walls, usually at seams. Then install an engineered wooden beam, and supports (lally columns at each end). I agree with no steel, expensive, and if you get the wrong size.........well don't! And let me see you do the measure twice cut once thing with a steel I beam. Whatever you do it's going to be more of a project than what appears on the first look see.

Dave

[Ray]

Thanx all,

Will make a trip to the cottage to grab the old 30 ton hydraulic jack & start slowly jacking up the floor. The wife will soon be nagging me to do the kitchen floor so I may as well get cracking on this.