Stoned? Or should they be?

[Unquestionably Confused]

Daughter just tiled her kitchen back splash with ~ 12" matted squares of rough textured "stone faced" tiles. Individual pieces are ~ 3/4" by anywhere from 1" to 1½" in width and perhaps 3/8" - 1/2" thick.

Tile is a light tan color but the coloration varies. Nice looking and all would be well in the world if only the manufacturer had not inserted darker pieces in the border of each mat where it interlocks with the others.

Upon installation when step back and view it from a distance there is a very distinct vertical dark area as well as a horizontal one where the mats butt together.

It's bad enough that it has to be cured "in place" or removed completely and start with a fresh wall.

She has some extra sheets remaining and tells me

1) there is no way to remove lighter pieces from the field to insert where the darker ones exist in the boarder. (I have my doubts about this. Perhaps not easily removed/replaced, but I suspect where there's a will there's a way)

My thoughts are:

1) not knowing if the stone tiles are colored by dye or au natural, I'm thinking about "feathering out the coloration along the horizontal "seams" with a wash of diluted muriatic acid and see if we can't bleach it out a bit.

2) if that doesn't work, investigate removing the darker ones (contrary to her belief that it cannot be done) and blend it/soften it that way. Note that these individual tiles are butted tight against one another and no grouting is used or recommended with this tile. I have a diamond bladed tile saw and, I think, the patience to do the trimming (lengthwise only AFAICT)

3) Look into a masonry or concrete dye, make a wash that will darken the entire wall. This is not all that desirable as she still likes the varied coloration in the tile.

4) Pick a lighter color and paint the damn tile and be done with it.

Anyone have a better suggestion or wish to warn me off of attempting any (or all) of the above solutions?

Thanks!

[Don Y]

Without a photo, I'm just guessing...

But, shall I assume these little tiles are adhered to a "mesh" (like a really coarse weave "burlap")? Is there visible space BETWEEN the tiles (the equivalent of grout lines)? Or, are they tightly packed?

E.g., bathroom floor tile ages ago was "sheets" of small 1"x1", 1x2, 2x2 tiles arranged in a seemingly "random" pattern. So, when you laid these sheets, the floor looked like it had been pieced together one (variable size) tile at a time.

[Your comments suggest these aren't as "regular" in size/shape?]

With that bathroom tile image in mind, you appear to be saying that all the tiles on the edge (or *an* edge, same problem, different visual aspect) are "dark". So, when you lay these sheets of seemingly random little tiles together, the randomness illusion is shattered by this periodic "dark stripe" -- every 12 inches, etc.

Instead of removing/replacing tiles, can you, instead, ELIMINATE tiles? For example, instead of a square with dark borders, strategically cut out a few tiles along an edge -- giving the "set" a more irregular shape.

Then, arrange to remove a complementary set of tiles on the OTHER edge (i.e., the edge of the adjacent tile that would mate with this one) so that the two sets fit together like "puzzle pieces" -- instead of "nice, REGULAR squares?"

E.g., instead of (ASCII art):

XXXYYYYYYYYLLLL XXXZZZZZZQQQQQQ AAAAABBBBQQQQQQ AAAAABBBBCMMMWW AAAAADDDDCMMMBB

cobble up the tiles to resemble:

...YYYYYYYYLLLL XXXZZZZZZQQQ... .AAAABBBBQQQQ.. ...AABBBBCMMMWW .AAAADDDDCMMM..

(the '.' represent placeholders for folks without fixed width fonts)

So, when you lay two sets side-by-side, you get:

...YYYYYYYYLLLL ...YYYYYYYYLLLL XXXZZZZZZQQQ... XXXZZZZZZQQQ... .AAAABBBBQQQQ.. .AAAABBBBQQQQ.. ...AABBBBCMMMWW ...AABBBBCMMMWW .AAAADDDDCMMM.. .AAAADDDDCMMM..

And, when you cram those together (letting the overlaps from one set fill the corresponding "voids" in the other) you *see*:

...YYYYYYYYLLLLYYYYYYYYLLLL XXXZZZZZZQQQXXXZZZZZZQQQ... .AAAABBBBQQQQAAAABBBBQQQQ.. ...AABBBBCMMMWWAABBBBCMMMWW .AAAADDDDCMMAAAADDDDCMMM...

instead of:

XXXYYYYYYYYLLLLXXXYYYYYYYYLLLL XXXZZZZZZQQQQQQXXXZZZZZZQQQQQQ AAAAABBBBQQQQQQAAAAABBBBQQQQQQ AAAAABBBBCMMMWWAAAAABBBBCMMMWW AAAAADDDDCMMMBBAAAAADDDDCMMMBB

[sorry, I refuse to post HTML]

Yeah, its a fair bit of work (and might not be possible without a close examination of your particular "tile sets") but it should break up the pattern -- esp if it is as pronounced as you suggest.

You can cheat *if* your set has a "line" that runs through it. E.g., cut the top two rows (of letters, in my example) off of the bottom 3 rows and shift it over a fair bit.

[Harry Calahan]

Don't worry about minor color variations.

By the time most women get done decorating a kitchen, there's so much gobdamn knickknack clutter on the counter tops that you can't see the back splash anyway.

[philo]

I agree, it's only noticeable because it's new and you are looking for problems...more than likely it won't be noticed after a few weeks.

[dpb]

...saga elided for brevity...

As a couple have said, the answer is probably "just live with it" as the most likely solution but if it's really _that_ much of a distraction before you do something too extreme I'd suggest contacting the manufacturer for information regarding the specific tile pattern. Probably this is a "feature" but perhaps there was an error either in installation or (rarely, but not unheard of) manufacture.

[Unquestionably Confused]

Unfortunately, there is no clutter to cover this problem and it is NOT a minor color variation. She sent us photos along with her concerns and from the photos it almost looks like somebody took a can of dark spray paint and "fogged" a band about 1½" wide horizontally and vertically along the joining edges of the mats.

A technical term perhaps, but it looks like shit!

[Unquestionably Confused]

Paper mesh mat (unlike the nylon mesh one typically finds) and no space. Tightly packed. The only way you could possibly grout between the individual pieces would be to lay the surface flat and have a grout mix the consistency of water

Yes and no. They are uniform as to height (vertical dimension) and vary slightly in horizontal dimension (but I don't believe it's totally random, hence my thought to go in and look for field pieces that will match the horizontal dimension of some of the offending darker pieces along the seams/edges)

Some, but not all of the tiles on the edge are darker.

I think we're on the same page here. It WILL involve replacing/swapping tiles from the field to the edge, something my daughter doesn't believe possible. As I haven't seen it in person, I don't know for certain but I think it can be done (with a good deal of work)

[Mike Duffy]

Has my wife been visiting you?

Do you have the set of ceramic measuring spoons shaped like various fruits of solanacea (tomato, eggplant, potato, pepper) on the wall, which you are not supposed to use because there are already 3 different sets of such spoons in the kitchen drawer?

For Each FOOD in [Potato, Avocado, Strawberry, Peanut, etc.] Do you have the serving dish for FOOD shaped like a FOOD? End

I'll bet that you don't have the porcelain rooster with the rough black stomach and chalk pieces in his boots that you are expected to use to write the grocery list on his stomach.

[Unquestionably Confused]

If this were a binaries group, I'd have no problem posting a picture which would reveal just how bad/glaring the effect is. Unfortunately, the only photos I currently have would do little to give anyone a good look at the actual pattern, up close, to assist in finding a solution.

I'm guessing I wasn't making it as clear as I thought I was. Understand that the vertical "seams" are NOT straight, only the horizontal seams are. The vertical seams are irregular, saw toothed, jagged or whatever term you wish to use.

They can be butted together in one way only so that pretty much kills the installation error theory. It may well be a "feature" but I'm hard pressed to believe that was their intent, but who knows? Stranger things have happened.

[trader_4]

+1

I don't see any easy solution either. A lesson to be learned here, with any installation like this, it's a good idea to lay some of the new product out, like it would wind up being installed, to better see what it looks like. Kind of like painting one wall, or at least a big part of a wall as a test, not just relying on what a small test area looks like.

[Gordon Shumway]

No need to post pictures here, just load them to some photo sharing website and post just the address here. Then everyone can see what the tiles look like. Here is a site that has a review of many photo sharing sites.

[dpb]

On 04/20/2016 9:22 AM, trader_4 wrote: ...

+237

I'll wager the installation instructions that came with the product or are available from the manufacturer's web site say precisely that...

Laid a _lot_ of tile for the uncle during college years as weekend work; _always_ lay out new tile, "you never know" what you may discover either as defect or as noted above, not appearing as expected from a sample...

[dpb]

On 04/20/2016 8:59 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote: ...

Possibly, but unless it's a quite limited number I'd guess the result won't be worth the effort. If the sizes are exact-enough, likely the ploy will be to break the offending dark one to get it out of the matrix and then replace it but I think I'd plan on getting used to the pattern as the practical solution.

[Unquestionably Confused]

Agreed. This is one of life's little lessons that she learned the hard way. Sometimes this is the very best way to teach

In the meantime, rather than beat on her, I'm trying to figure out a way to recover from her error and that's just as important.

[Unquestionably Confused]

These illustrate the situation and also, if you consider them carefully, show that it's either a design or manufacturing defect (or "feature" if you're so inclined) rather than an installation error.

I'm thinking that when I get there in person and see the field tiles remaining (on the spare sheets), I'll find some lighter ones that will be the same size as the darker ones which are causing the problem.

Then again, rather than get hung up on just one solution, I go back to the question of: If this is a man made product (don't know) and the material was dyed, would a bit of muriatic acid (or anything else that someone might suggest) offer a "bleaching" alternative, or. . .?

[Unquestionably Confused]

Multi-tool with a carbide blade and lots and lots of patience. Kids will always provide a challenge to their parents, even into their 30's. OTOH, they also provide us with grandchildren and that makes it all worthwhile

[Don Y]

So, you could, possibly, "rip" each to form horizontal strips. Then, stagger the strips (left to right) to shift portions of the "darks" so they don't reinforce each other, visually?

For example:

XXXYYYZZZ AABBBBBBC DDDDDEEEE FGGGHHHII

can become:

XXXYYYZZZ AABBBBBBC

and

DDDDDEEEE FGGGHHHII

which can then be shifted to yield:

XXXYYYZZZXXXYYYZZZ AABBBBBBCAABBBBBBC EEEDDDDDEEEEDDDDDE HIIFGGGHHHIIFGGGHH

instead of:

XXXYYYZZZXXXYYYZZZ AABBBBBBCAABBBBBBC DDDDDEEEEDDDDDEEEE FGGGHHHIIFGGGHHHII

Understood. Enough that they're similarity reinforce each other, visually.

You can't rotate the set 90 degrees as the individual tiles wouldn't be oriented correctly (standing on end). But, can you rotate 180 degrees without introducing a visible artifact?

My approach just selectively removes tiles along the edges -- in the hope that the tiles REMAINING on the opposite edge "just so happen" to fit into those voids. This is probably tougher to achieve than selecting (and swapping) individual tiles from ANYWHERE.

The "tight fit" aspect might make it impractical to achieve -- without it looking like it was pieced together.

Ask for a photo of one. Then, of a couple (so you can determine if they are all identical; or, if there are some number of variations).

As they are square, they obviously expect some regularity in the pattern (because they always "end" with a straight edge).

[Don Y]

Wow! Here, SWMBO wants/expects the counters to be free of EVERYTHING! "They're for food prep, not junk storage!"

I can't even leave a container of tea "out" despite using it every hour or two!

[Don Y]

Post a photo (on a file sharing site) so folks can, at least, see the overall *effect*.

Of course, what others have to say about "your" (her) kitchen doesn't matter.

*You* (she) are the one who will be living with it!

Ah! I'd assumed it was square and was advocating MAKING it irregular. (but, the same approach remains valid)

Brain *loves* to find patterns. After all, that is it's primary purpose ("recognize" something so it can react to that knowledge).

You can make it harder to notice patterns by having SEVERAL patterns and alternating between them (I think there are 12 or 16 different "appearances" to our floor tile -- so, how you lay them determines the nature of any patterns that YOU create).

Or, by having something that is overly "busy" to confound the senses.

Or, by increasing the size (reducing the spatial frequency) of the pattern so it's spread over larger distances and less likely to be captured in a glance... EVERY glance.

[Don Y]

Wow! That *is* very noticeable!

Yes. Someone deliberately made sure that they would fit together to visually reinforce that coloration. I'd previously assumed it was just "an unhappy coincidence" owing to the small size of the sets (easier for a pattern to appear over a short distance).

So, consider that it might be deliberate. In fact, the top edge also appears to be darker. I.e., if she had done an entire wall with this, it might look like 12" SQUARE BLOCKS stacked in courses?

But, the tile is already installed. hard to imagine you can remove individual "pieces" and fit (tightly) selected replacements in their places. You'd have to replace a sizeable fraction of the darks to tamp out the effect!

Understood. You're really hoping for a solution that you can impose AFTER the installation has been completed.

[Pretty kitchen, though!]