Steel Beams and Posts

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As a result of a home inspection an issue was brought up on our relatively new home.
The inspector's concern was that the lally columns under the main steel beams in the house were not attached to the beams. They have flanges that have been hammered up and around the beam. According to him they should be either bolted or welded to the beam. I got an inconclusive answer after a call to the local building inspector who in the end thought that the wrap around method was ok.
Any thoughts as to which opinion is correct?
Here are some pictures of the beams in question
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m173/dhernycpa/IMG_1682.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m173/dhernycpa/IMG_1681.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m173/dhernycpa/IMG_1680.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m173/dhernycpa/IMG_1679.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m173/dhernycpa/IMG_1676.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m173/dhernycpa/IMG_1672-1.jpg
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No way is that going to move. I see no problem with it. All the pressure is downward. If the kids bang into it playing around, nit will not move. Sound like the inspector just want to cover his ass and does not understand physics.
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I have the same attachment, and have seen many houses with this method used. As long as the beam is mechanically attached to the floor joists, there should be no lateral forces to be concerned with. I think the house inspector is trying to make his own standards for you to follow, or, even worse, he is unaware of the different construction methods used in homebuilding.

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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

The wrap around clamp method is certainly ok in most cases. In a high earthquake risk area perhaps not, but otherwise very unlikely to shift.
The quick, easy and cheap way to fasten them to prevent shifting is with a powder actuated fastening tool (blank powered nail gun) and the correct short pins (nails) for steel which should be about 1/2" long with a crosshatch pattern on the shank. You can fire four of these through the column flange into the beam flange in seconds and they will insure that the flange can not ever slide under any sane level of force. The shear strength of those pins is thousands of pounds each.
Pete C.
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ypou could get them welded or tack welded
you a buyer or a seller?
I had a home inspector note NO GFCI on garage sump pump, I had GFCI installed but deal fell thru.
Next buyers home inspector noted you shouldnt have a GFCI on a sump pump:(
Either way I lost:(
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Perfect example of why a home inspector is a waste of money for most people. Too many are incompetant.
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Now wait a minute! As a seller home inspectors are a PIA:(
As a BUYER though they can run down the price....
A + + for buyers:)
A BIG MINUS for sellers.
Plus they are inexpensive and may find things buyers friends may miss....
they have their place..........
I feel pretty competent looking at homes but would definetely hire a inspector if I were buying another home
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I grew up in the business, so have the technical knowledge to do my own, but paid 350 for an inspection anyway. It didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know, but dropping that thick report on the table was a good negotiating technique. Having an 'official certified opinion' about the defects probably saved me 10-12 k on the price.
aem sends...
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wrote:

Now I finally feel good. I didn't hire one.
As to beams and post, the OP is lucky that the flanges were hammered up and around. Mine are still sticking straight out, and I hang things on them. :) Should I hammer them up and around?
OTOH, my base seems pretty good. It's underneath the cement floor.
Does that mean it is only a half inch underneath, or is the bottom flange of the post all the way below the cement floor?
There is also a lolly column at the bottom of the stairs that they built a box around. At least I hope there's a column in there. :)

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HO HO HO a home inspector would of probably caught that.
When its time to sell your home it and all sorts of wierd stuff will be a issue. when your a seller the buyer and his inspectoir will drive you nuts.
The mortge industry is close to requiring a home inspection for every new mortage.
If someone buys a flawed home they mght walk away, so mortage wants you to buy a good home.
times have changed we are sue happy and a generation ago it was very rare to hear of someone walking away from home.
If housing prices tank say 20% from natural or man made disaster, like hurricane or terrorist I wonder what the default rate will be? I owe more than its worth may drive prices down futher...
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wrote:

You know, I'd never seen a post or flanges before (or maybe I had in other basements, but never noticed) and I gave a passing thought to those flanges. It didn't seem like wrapping them around the I-beam would do much, so I never looked into it. It's not that I actively thought about wrapping them around, but often all I do is look at something and ways to finish it occur to me. Not this time.
Hmmm, now that I've clamped an excercise bench to the lolly post, maybe it is all the more important that I hammer them around ???
Fortunately, I never actually exercise. The fun thing was setting it up and replacing the missing parts (hamfest purchase). Exercising itself would tire me out.

I'm almost 60. Maybe I should do this stuff before I'm 80 and it might be too difficult**. Or maybe I can live in this house until I die and it's someone else's problem.
**I plan ahead. I may need surgery on my other shoulder. The plan was to decide by the time I was 60, because they put it in a sling for 6 weeks, and it was a lot of work to get back full mobility on the first shoulder even when I was 32. I don't feel any older, but I know aging is inevitable. In this case the shoulder has only been dislocated three or four times, once or twice 35 years ago, once 27 years ago and once 17 years ago, and feels pretty good. (the other one never felt strong, even when it hadn't come out for 10 years) So I'm not going to do the surgery and hope it doesn't get worse.

Makes sense.

Yes, although there are protections against stock market trading causing a crash, there are lots of other possible serious problems.
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I buy stuff at hamfests too although I am nor a HAM.
bought 2 computes for 10 bucks 6 years ago, made one good one out of them its still going strong today for a friend although hot temps cause power supoly issues. I offere to replace it with a newer used one she is content as is.
about a month ago bought a sony cam corder with steady picture for 25 bucks spent extra 10 for new battery. came with everything but manual.even carrying cases
long term loan to a friend with a 2 year old, I will borrow it if I have a need:) heck it even camne with eight blank high 8 tapes.
I QUIT going to dayton:( Got screwed too often, power supplies with room for rent stripped of parts etc:( Stll miss dayton but I do much better at local hamfests....
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wrote:

You can probably get new power supplies for 10 dollars at another hamfest! Or less from another broken computer.

Tomorrow, I'm going to Berryville Virginia. If I can wake up in 4 1/2 hours. :)
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" snipped-for-privacy@aol.com" wrote:

The wrap around connection is perfectly fine as everyone including the local building official noted.
Welding or bolting the connection requires a fair amount of time, effort and in the case of welding, power and equipment. The nail gun method will requite little effort or time and you can rent a very good Hilti nail gun at Home Depot for a few hours to do it.
Since it is an unnecessary addition of value only if the report of the less-than-qualified home inspector make you nervous, the cheapest "fix" is best to avoid wasting even more money than you already have on the inspection.
Pete C.
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Pete C. wrote:

My best buddy is retired and welds has machine shop too.
So tack weld this is a quick stop hows things? And perhaps a friendly dinner later at Ponderosa....
I really depend on him..........
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" snipped-for-privacy@aol.com" wrote:

Assuming power is available for the welder. The Hilti nail gun is still faster and easier and less equipment to lug since I haven't seen any welder as light as a nail gun. Either will certainly work.
Pete C.
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

As Pete C notes, the attachment is of concern in areas of seismic or high wind activity. TB
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The structure is stronger with clamps instead of holes for fasteners.
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Richard J Kinch wrote:

Er, no. The mounting holes, which are already in the flange anyway, are outside the load bearing area, particularly given that fact that it is a steel beam. The load bearing capacity is unaffected by the holes.
Pete C.
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Pete C. writes:

An I-beam with holes is weaker than one without.
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