Square D electrical panel question

I noticed a friends's Square D panel, the neutral and ground (from the utility company feed) are connected to the same bar. And less than an inch apart.

Shouldn't the ground be connected to the separate ground bar?

Should I move the ground wire?

Reply to
Stormin Mormon
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I had a girlfriend who told me that the earth moved. So I guess she'd say yes.

Reply to
Micky

No if this is the service disconnect enclosure where the ground electrode conductor lands and the main disconnect resides they will be on the same bus bar.

Reply to
gfretwell

The question is about the circuit breaker panel in the cellar. There is a main breaker, but I'd not call it a main disconnect.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Unless there is another disconnect before it, then the main breaker is the main and only disconnect. Most panels here, the main breaker serves as the disconnect.

Reply to
trader_4

What would you call the main disconnect?

Is there another disconnect between the pole/underground wires and the panel? If not, the main breaker in the panel is also the main disconnect.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

Mains = wire coming in from the power company. Main disconnect = a disconnect outside the house. (yes, I've seen these before.) Main breaker = the breaker that shuts off power to all the smaller breakers.

I do not call a breaker in a panel a "main disconnect".

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Just because you don't call it a "main disconnect" doesn't make you right.

Main disconnect a disconnect outside the house.

"2008 NEC Article 230.70 (A) (1) The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors."

The "breaker panel" inside the house could be a "service panel" or a "distribution panel". If the main breaker is enclosed in that panel and serves as the main disconnect, then the panel is a "service panel". If the "main disconnect" is in an enclosure by itself which then feeds another enclosure full of breakers for the individual circuits, then the "first" enclosure is the service panel and the "second" is the distribution panel.

Review the conversation in this thread, or any other site of your choice:

(Sorry for the long link, I can not access tinyurl at this time)

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Reply to
DerbyDad03

I wouldn't either, I would call it the service disconnect if it was the first disconnecting means after the service point. (the place where the utility's wires connect to yours)

Reply to
gfretwell

Not pushing back, just curious...

Do you not call it a "main disconnect" based on some official terminology or just based on your preference? The reason I ask is this:

If I DAGS for images of Main Disconnect or images of Service Disconnect, I get a combination of images that use either of those terms, and even a Main Service Disconnect thrown in every now and then.

Some images come from Home Inspection sites, some come from .gov sites, etc. There doesn't seem to be a "standard".

Reply to
DerbyDad03

The NEC refers to it as the "service disconnecting means" and that commonly gets rounded off to service disconnect, main disconnect or other things. As long as we understand what we are talking about it is just semantics.

The main bonding jumper (the place where the neutral gets grounded) must be in the same enclosure where the service disconnect resides. Some AHJs have ruled that it can be anywhere in "service equipment" and allow it in the meter can if the ground electrode conductor lands there too. This is because most meter cans ground the neutral.

I am not sure how they justify it because 250.24(B) seems pretty unambiguous

(B) Main Bonding Jumper. For a grounded system, an unspliced main bonding jumper shall be used to connect the equipment grounding conductor(s) and the service-disconnect enclosure to the grounded conductor within the enclosure for each service disconnect in accordance with 250.28.

The important thing is that the neutral does not get regrounded after the place where the grounding electrode lands. There used to be an exception for sub panels in another building with a grounding electrode system but that went away during the Clinton administration.

Reply to
gfretwell

Thanks once again for sharing your expertise.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

You only use that screw in the service disconnect enclosure. In a sub panel you install the supplemental grounding bus and bring the equipment grounding conductor to that (4 wire feeder) The neutral bus remains isolated.

Reply to
gfretwell

In better than 90% of installations that main breaker IS the main disconnect, and as far as the code is concerned unless it is a sub-panel the original explanation is correct. Neutral is bonded to ground.

Be a lot safer to leave it alone than to have micky playing around with it anyway.

Reply to
clare

Then you are not correct in your terminalogy. The main breaker in the panel IS the main disconnect, except in some "redneck bungalow subdivisions" where there is a switch on the pole to disconnect the trailer from the grid .

Reply to
clare

The question wasn't posed by Micky, it was posed by Stormin.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

Hey, I never said that. I said I made the earth move for my girlfriend, when we were...you know; not for a breaker box.

Reply to
Micky

Thanks. I answered before I saw this.

Reply to
Micky

Please replace "IS" with "may be".

Reply to
DerbyDad03

And that doesn't improve the odds.

Reply to
clare

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