Spreadsheet of KWH versus Gasoline Cost for 22 Electric and Plug-In Hybrid Cars

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I compared 11 electric-only vehicles and 11 plug-in hybrids for cost per mile on electricity (for electric only) and cost per mile on electricity versus cost per mile on gasoline. I did this at various prices per KWH and prices per gallon.
What's interesting (and infuriating) is that about two miles away from me is another city that doesn't use a for-profit utility, but that has a municipally owned power company. They charge about 11¢/KWH (Silicon Valley Power). I pay about 32¢ per KWH (PG&E).
Bottom line is that until gasoline is over $4.65 per gallon there's no point in plugging my wife's Prius Plug-In. But someone in Santa Clara should plug in as long as gasoline is more than $1.65 per gallon.
Unless you have free or low-cost electricity, the big advantage of plug-in hybrids, or all-electric, vehicles, in California, are those beautiful stickers that go on your bumpers that allow you to use the carpool lanes with only one occupant in the vehicle. Actually they have stopped issuing the stickers for the plug-in hybrid vehicles as they reached the limit, but of course the vehicle manufacturers were able to push through a bill expanding the number again.
Spreadsheet is at:
<tinyurl.com/mpgvskwh> or if you're scared of TinyURLs, use <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gsMLOa9VT-h5TUfYWmZh9AgMOfGBY_Cxfb-W_FJpIJQ/edit?pli=1#gid 88830099>.
Let me know of any errors. The data is not always easily available. Especially the real battery capacity versus the rated capacity of the battery pack if it were charged all the way (which vehicle manufacturers don't do).
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On 12/10/2014 12:27 PM, SMS wrote:

Very interesting study. Pardon the pun, but what you pay for electricity is shocking. Private co. here in DE is about 11¢/KWH. At my 6,000 mi/yr I'd save about $180/yr with hybrid but if you factor in extra cost of the hybrid over conventional car savings would be nil.
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On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 2:45:00 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:

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That's what happens when you let a bunch of libs run things. I'll bet if you look at the root causes, he's paying 32c/kwh because they are funding moon beams, saving the whales, whatever, off his electric bill.
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On 12/10/2014 3:16 PM, trader_4 wrote:

I'm not certain about our 11 cents. I got it from googling the company. Libs are in charge here and we're all paying an extra $5 for a company developing natural gas fuel cells which are less efficient than generators and we may be paying for offshore windmills which are now defunct.
When GM abandoned their plant here, the Dems financed Fisker to build their $90,000 Karma here and they took the money and left.
Government's got no business in investing taxpayer money in businesses.
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On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 3:49:37 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:

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11 cents sounds possible. Here, NJ, few months ago when I last checked it was about 12.5. It's come down quite a bit. A few years ago, it was ~17c. That's the number I was using, hadn't checked for quite a while. I was pleasantly surprised that it's come down.
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On 12/10/2014 3:56 PM, trader_4 wrote:

I'm not certain but think bulk of NJ electricity is from nuclear. Since coal is being chased out I think most of our power comes from adjacent states. Delmarva power includes parts of Maryland and Virginia.
Found this state by state comparison googling around:
http://www.eia.gov/state/rankings/?sid=NJ#series/31
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On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:19:07 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:

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Only about 20% is from nuclear. Even less in just a couple years. The environmentalists succeeded in getting one to shut down.

Our power does too, mostly from coal.

That's interesting, because as I said, just a few years ago, I was paying ~17c. That chart says 16c. I was surprised that the last couple times I calculated, it was down to 12.5c. Part of what may be going on here is that NJ has several power companies. I may be lucky and have one that is lower than others.
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The acronym you're looking for is EROEI.
Energy returned on energy invested. The higher the value, the more efficient the energy source.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_returned_on_energy_invested#mediaviewer/File:EROI_-_Ratio_of_Energy_Returned_on_Energy_Invested_-_USA.svg

http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/10/the-energy-trap/ http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/07/galactic-scale-energy/ http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/08/does-the-logistic-shoe-fit/
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As usual, your conservative filter has interjected nonsense. The CPUC has instituted tiered rates to encourage conservation and reduce the need to build new power plants. The basic rate is about USD0.15/kwh for the initial basic allocation and goes up in two tiers based on usage. The highest rate is USD0.35/kwh for the top tier (but that only accounts for about 10% or less of the average customer usage, so they're paying much less per kwh each month).
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On 12/10/2014 4:27 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Using that same logic, Sharpie Pens should be 0.99 each and $14.99 a dozen, to discourage usage and need for more factories.
Customers using a store card at the gas station should pay more for gas, because they use more.
Donuts should be .89 each, and should be $13.99 a dozen to discourage over consumption.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On 12/10/2014 4:35 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

My neighbor, an ER doc, tells me that approximately 60% of hospital patients are being treated for health problems that are completely preventable.
Basically, we as a nation eat too damn much and as a result are obese.
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On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:27:25 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:

As usual, you can't do basic math. All you've told us is that the rates are being set artificially high by govt. Now think about it. There is a huge, about 2X difference in revenue coming in and it's got to be going somewhere. And if they are using it to chase economically unviable energy sources, which even you apparently acknowledge, that is indeed chasing moon beams and saving the whales. Capiche?
The basic rate is about USD0.15/kwh for the

So, again, the libs are artificially jacking up rates and screwing the consumer, big time. And where is all that money going? How much punishment to the citizens is enough? Have you libs no compassion for the poor? I guess you like to screw them with one big hand, keep them down and out, then pretend to help them with the other hand, by making them dependent on govt and you libs for assistance.
This stupidity is like the US screwing our economy, our citizens, our jobs, by placing huge costs on the economy over CO2, while India and China do as they please. It's like pissing in the wind. In this case, you libs must feel wonderful, pretending to save the environment, while in almost every other state, we're enjoying electric at half the rates or less, and what you're doing makes no difference in the grand scheme.
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Per SMS:

I just took a quick look, but did not see an amortization factor for the cost of replacing the vehicle's battery.
Seems like that would add significantly to the cost per mile.
e.g. $5,000 replacement cost, 1,000 charges in life of battery, 200 miles per charge.... $5.00/200 = 2.5 cents per mile... and I would think that's on the low side.
Or didn't I look closely enough?
--
Pete Cresswell

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On 12/10/2014 3:35 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

The Prius Hybrid (not plug-in) has a 8 yr or 100,000 mile warranty. We bought ours almost 10 years ago (2005?) with no problems. My niece has it now.
I heard (somewhere) the batteries in the Prius's are lasting longer than even the mfg expected. Also, the battery prices have been coming down. That's not to say it isn't expensive but, it's not as bad as many had predicted. You can get a refurbished Prius hybrid battery for around $1600. New probably about $1000 more if you shop around. One thing I know is...don't buy it at the dealer.
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There is a growing movement to factor in a cost of how many miles they drive so a road tax can be charged. This is because roads are paid for by the tax on fuel. As far as I know there is no seperate charge (tax) on the power used for the electric cars.
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and those that use electricity from nukes should pay into a trust fund so that the waste can be safely guarded for the 1000s of years it will take to half-life down to lead
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On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 7:51:03 PM UTC-5, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:

Two points. One is that a tax on nukes to pay for long term storage of waste is very different than govt artificially screwing with and setting market prices for energy. The second is, we had exactly that. A tax on nukes to pay for the long term storage. It went on for years, until a court ruled a couple years ago that it was illegal, since the tax was to fund the nuclear waste storage. You libs killed that project in Nevada after billions had already been spent on it and it was half completed. So, now nuclear waste is piling up at storage pools at facilities all over the country, instead of being at a highly secure, safe area. The tax is no longer being collected. Feel better?
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wrote:

Good job. Looks to me that for a lot of people gas will cost about twice as much per mile as electric. I say that based on people doing the recharge at night when rates are lower. If I had an electric or hybrid I'd charge it at night when my electric is about 9 cents a kWh. That's going to get me a cost per mile on electric of about 3 cents a mile. At any realistic gasoline price I'd be paying at least twice as much per mile.
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On Wed, 10 Dec 2014 15:15:12 -0500, Stormin Mormon

Where did you dream up a 3 year battery life?
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On 12/10/2014 9:17 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Sorry; two years. I figure car batteries last me about four, and these are unproven technology.
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