spray paint vs hand paint

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I just tried spray painting (compressor and spray gun) for the first time. I water down the paint to 4 parts paint, 1 part water. The resulting paint job is a little chalky or sandy. And the satin sheen is no where to be seen. Meanwhile, my hand paint (with Purdy brush) job, while has a little brush mark, but it retains the satin finish and looks and feels smoother to me.
How can I maintain the satin sheen with spray gun? Is it because I didn't water it down properly?
thx in advance.
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Wendi wrote:>I just tried spray painting (compressor and spray gun) for the first time.

What kind of paint? Read the label on the can, and see if there's anything on there about using it in a spray gun. Then get back to us. Tom Work at your leisure!
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Cabinets again? You will never get great results with latex. You can get a sprayed on finish quality with 2 paints made Ben Moore Impervo, and P&L effecto both oils both around 35 a gallon. Purdy brush ? you think a name makes it eh. For brush work with oil use Penetrol till its smoother. You can paint glass with this and not see brush marks. But it takes practice. weeks of practice . Spray, Why latex unless you refer to wood trim. You need a real paint store with pros that have painted to get your stuff from. not Borgs . Even Sherwin doesnt compare in finish quality.
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I found this paint rating website... http://www.factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair/interiorPaint.htm It's a bit old and probably only includes latex paint.
I'm actually quite happy with the BEHR paint and the Purdy brush. It levels itself out very well.
I'm using the deposable NIOSH mask now. If I were to switch to alkyd-based paint, I need the heavy duty "Mickey Mouse" mask. I can't stand the smell of oil-based paint. Hope the Mickey mask is not too uncomfortable to wear. Otherwise, I have to stick with latex paint.
-wen

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BEHR paint instruction: "Thin no more than 1/2 pint per gallon...Use airless sprayer 0.015 spray tip." What is airless sprayer? How do I find out the tip size of a spray gun (I borrowed the gun from someone).
thx in advance -wen

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On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 01:09:05 -0400, "wendi"
editing):

An airless sprayer is one which doesn't rely on air to atomize the finish. Basically they work by pumping the finish at a very high pressure out of a small nozzle. In the case of the Behr finish, the hole in the nozzle is 0.015 inches. That makes me think you are using latex. If that's the case, that is not what I'd use on cabinets.
Airless sprayers are typically used for spraying houses or barns. There is less "bounce back" or waste. However, a decent airless is very expensive - usually over $1000.00.
I'm far from being an expert, but for cabinets, I'd much prefer finishing with lacquer. It sprays beautifully, can be laid down with a regular or, better yet, an HVLP gun. You can use NC (nitrocellulose) or, if you don't have a proper spray booth handy, water based lacquers. You can buy it gloss or semi-gloss right out of the can. (any Sherwin Williams dealer can order it for you) If you thin it, you need a simple Ford cup, which costs you only a few bucks. I believe I use a number 4 cup. You dip it in the thinned paint and time how long it takes to drain out the bottom. It should take 15 - 20 seconds - 18 is recommended for a .01 tip which is right for lacquer in an HVLP gun.
Good luck,
--
Larry
Email to rapp at lmr dot com
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Larry,
Thank you. That's very helpful! I was going to switch from latex paint to alkyd paint because of blocking (door and facing sticking together) issue associated with latex paint. But I can't find a proper mask that fits me. Home Depot only carries the medium size "Mickey Mouse" mask which does not fit me. Water-based lacquer is a great alternative to alkyd-based paint. Is lacquer less prone to blocking than latex paint?
-thx in advance
wrote (with possible

find
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I asked about WB lacquer at SW and got a blank look. Jeff Jewitt can color WB lacquer to match a color number and manufacturer (if memory serves). Visit www.homesteadfinishing.com to look around and ask on one of the Forums there. Or E-mail him snipped-for-privacy@gwis.com He's told others to give him the data and he can match. I'm used the WB lacquer and spraying 2 coats or more a day. Great stuff!
On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:03:32 -0400, "wendi"

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Where did you get your WB lacquer? I checked out SW's website. They carry a acrylic lacquer under contractor or industrial consumer's category. I assume acrylic is WB. The DIY SW Retail probably does not carry it. As for Benjamin Moore, I couldn't find any WB lacquer....
wrote:

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www.homesteadfinishing.com is Jeff Jewitts' site. He has WB lacquer from two makers, Target Coatings and Fuhr. I've been using Targets' Ultima Spray Lacquer for a while either clear gloss or colored with TransTint dyes. If you have a makers color chip number Jeff can probably match it with WB lacquer. Ask on on of the Forums on the site. Be sure to wear a respirator and have plenty of ventilation. I open the garage door about a foot, open a window in the back of the garage and have a fan behind me as well as one in the window to exhaust overspray. I've been spraying straight out of the can as the viscosity is correct for my setup.
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:04:37 -0400, "wendi"

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<< How can I maintain the satin sheen with spray gun? >>
Use the right kind of spray gun. For heavy latex paints airless sprayers are often the best choice. If you have a large enough compressor and the correct nozzle assembly, an HVLP spray gun might do the job. Many painting contractors use HVLP systems with dedicated compressors. If you are using an old fashioned internal mix spray gun, experimenting with paint type and thinning might get you decent results, but for that set up an oil based paint may work better when thinned for spraying. I'd suggest finding a dedicated paint store where the professionals buy there stuff, and ask the counter chaps for their best advice. Good luck.
Joe
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EXCEPT the overspray of oil based paint would be a killer! Floetrol thins latex better than water, though 25% water sounds a bit much.
On 15 Jul 2004 23:05:42 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comtosspam (Joe Bobst) wrote:

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Joe,
Yes, I have a HVLP spray gun and 10 cfm compressor. I have to thin the primer and the paint down; otherwise, the nozzle tends to get clogged up easily.
Oil-based paint is probably overkill for the look that I'm going for. I'm going for the distress look, not the super, duper smooth look. The BEHR paint actually levels out very well when using paint brush and in its original form (not water down). I'm happy with the hand brush job. It just take too long. There're a lot of trims. The spray gun is sooooo much quickly. The drawback of the spray gun is that it gives a little bit of texture. And the most disturbing thing is the sheen of the satin paint is gone!?! I'm not sure if it's a result of the thinned paint or it's the texture or both...
I'd use L&P if they have the color I want. But, they don't. I was planning to try Sherwin Williams tomorrow. But someone mentioned that SW is not good enough either? Please rate these stores... 1. Bejamin Moore 2. Vista 3. Edward Duncan
thx in advance -wen

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On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 00:57:06 -0400, "wendi"
editing):
...snip

If you lose the sheen, it usually means you are not spraying correctly. The trick is to shoot enough to get the smooth satin texture without orange peeling but not too much or you get sags. You need to experiment a bit. With lacquer, you can thin with retarder and it's a lot easier to do (at least for me), but you should be able to use what you're using providing it's properly thinned.
--
Larry
Email to rapp at lmr dot com
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Larry,
Have you ever tried Latex and Floetrol? Wonder how does that compare to lacquer? Both are water-based easy clean-up and no nauseating fumes.
-wen
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On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 00:57:06 -0400, "wendi"
note:

Any real paint store that has competent help can custom mix colors for you...
-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
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As one other person said, part of the problem may be your technique. You do not want to get the nozzle too far from the sprayed surface. Latex is difficult (based on my experience and what others have written). You definitely need to use floetrol up to the maximum dilution as the main thinner to maintain gloss and then add a small amount of water if needed.
A second point is temperature. You should be spraying at a fairly low temperature such as 65-70, and definitely nothing over 75 degrees or it dries too quickly.
Oil is much easier to work with and as far as the distressed look, my piano is a distressed knotty pine and is of course clear finished in laquer. Even if it were painted I certainly wouldn't want it to be in latex.
You took on a major project for a first time using HVLP. There seems to be a fairly short but steep learning curve. Don't get discouraged.
wendi wrote:

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Thank you George for the encourage. This turned out to be a lot tougher than I had anticipated. The garage is pretty hot. And, I was trying to do many layer of fine mist which is exactly what not to do! Floetrol is new to me. I assume I can get it from Sherwin Williams. Larry suggested using lacquer if I don't want to deal with oil. How does that (lacquer) compare to Latex+Floetrol? They're both water-based; hence; easy clean-up and no nauseating fumes.
thx in advance.

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Should be able to get Floetrol at most paint places, certainly and Home Depot and Lowes. Have never used water-based lacquer but it should be much easier to apply and will provide a much harder surface than any latex paint. You need to wear a mask (respirator) when spraying anything. As for your mask problems, you should always be wearing the "mickey mouse" type. Disposable types aren't adequate for protection when spraying, you need to stop the aerosol particles and the the chemical vapors (stink). The better masks should fit almost anyone, may not be real comfortable but should seal against your face; you would have to be very strange if a good mask won't seal. Good Luck, you seem to be heading in the right direction.
wendi wrote:

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On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 00:21:35 -0400, "wendi"
note:

See previous posts on the subject.
First you should have cleaned the cabinets, then sanded well, then cleaned, then primed with an oil based primer, then sanded, then cleaned, then primed with an oil based primer, then sanded, then cleaned, then possibly one more round of primer, sanding, and cleaning, and then and only then applied your first coat of oil based paint, then sand, then clean, then a second coat of oil based paint, then if you want a really good finish, one more round of sanding and cleaning, and a final coat of oil based paint.
Progressively finer grades of sandpaper. Paint should be cured with each round. Be meticulous about having a dust free work environment. Practice your technique ahead of time. You can get great results with this kind of painting regardless of brush or sprayer, it just takes practice on how to thin the paint properly and if you wish to use any hardener.
There is no easy way to get the paint job you say you want. It takes work. It takes elbow grease. Most of all, it takes time, which is why no one hires out this kind of work anymore because the labor costs would make it prohibitively expensive.
-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
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