Spiral fluorescent lighting - not getting anywhere near the 5 to 7 year life - anyone else?

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On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:21:51 -0500, Freebird33@hot_ail.com wrote:

Or eating too much corn? :-)

BTW, I edited my quote because of a mistake. It was 70 lights, not 35. I never edit other people's quotes.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
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snipped-for-privacy@nomail.com wrote:

Why would you leave them on all day? All I said was that the more you turn them on/off, the faster they wear out.
Around here, Philips CFLs are available easily for $2/bulb at the local Home Depot.
At 10.4 cents/KWh, it takes 16.82 KWh to make up the price difference, or around 280 hrs of runtime for the bulbs you specified above. As long as they don't wear out before that then they make sense.
Turning them on/off once a night shouldn't be a problem--any CFL should be able to last for years under those conditions, and if it doesn't I'd contact the manufacturer. For a pantry light that may get cycled a dozen times while making a meal and is only on for a few seconds at a time, they're probably not the best thing to use.
For my home office where the lights get turned on in the morning and stay on basically all day, the bulbs pay for themselves in a couple months.
Chris
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One of my old PHILIPS CFL bulbs finally died after 12(?) years of service. I opened it up to do an "autopsy", and I was amazed at the number of electronic components.
Two circuit boards, tiny transformer, couple of electrlytic caps, SCR, transistor, dozen mini-resistors and caps, a few diodes,...etc.etc.
Haven't opened up a modern CFL, but, I'm sure they've cut the component count.
<rj>
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snipped-for-privacy@nomail.com wrote:

Excess power consumption by a fluorescent during starting is somewhere between nonexistent and equivalent to 1 second or so of continuous operation.

You mean watt-hours, not watts.
Meanwhile, if you have them on once a day for half an hour, they will last longer if you have them off the other 23.5 hours. A start usually costs something like 10 minutes of life.

If that one had a limited warranty, you can make good on it. Many have these limited warranties for home use.

Was that a dollar store junker? I never had any other than dollar store junkers do that. In my experience, most dollar store ones lack UL listing, while most other screw base (ballast included) CFLs have that. (Ballastless lightbulbs don't appear to me to need that.)

In my experience, spirals mostly outlast incandescents by far.
The main exceptions:
1) A Lights of America one and one bad run of GE ones - 25 watts, purchased around 2001. (I have also experienced more than a fair share of problems with non-spiral Lights of America CFLs.)
2) Ones overheating in small enclosed fixtures or in recessed ceiling fixtures.
3) High wattage ones (like 42 watts) operating base-up.

Home centers usually have a few. Electrical/lighting supply shops of the kind that contractors go to and the major online lightbulb sellers have more. Just avoid the dollar store ones - I consistently found problems, including poor color, poor color rendering, and severe shortfall of light output from claimed light output, lack of a lumen figure for light output, lack of signs of certification by any recognized safety testing organization whether UL or otherwise, usually most of these, often all of these in my experience.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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This decrease in lifespan due to short on-off periods really needs to be indicated on CFB packaging - a recommendation by the mfr. that compact flourescents' usable life may be adversely affected if turned on and off several times a day.
Until then, I like Jim McLaughlin's suggestion of keeping the packaging and receipt and when the bulb blows in six months sending a letter to the manufacturer asking for a replacement...

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If they did add a decreased life span warning for on/off, they could not make the claim that the lamp will last 7 years.
It does say on the package that the estimated life is using the lamp for 3 hours a day. This suggests that the lamp is designed to be turned on/off daily.

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Bonnie Peebles wrote:

The first ones I bought a few years ago did not last that long (at least some did not), they were not as bright as expected, they did not come up to full brightness very fast and overall were not all that good.
Those I have bought this year (three different types two brands) have done everything well. I will be using more in the future.
--
Joseph Meehan

Dia \'s Muire duit
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well they dont last as promoted, and I have had 2 burn out when waxing living room tables, the aerosol spray mist appears to fry them.
needless to say I dont do hat again, one went poof with a little flame and I wasnt spraying in the bulb, overspray did it in
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CFLs are not yet commodity items. Brands count from my experience and if you just buy on price, performance is likely to be poor. I put in CFLs about 4 years ago and haven't had a burnout as yet with several of the lamps on 4-6 hours/day. Got the lamps at Target, but all were Energy Star listed. That means the lamps are tested for life, light output, color, etc. and you can complain to Energy Star if they don't perform. I always return lamps that fail prematurely to the manufacturer (address is on the carton typically). Not only do they replace the lamp, they usually include a coupon or extra lamps -- at least the name brand companies.
LEDs are improving rapidly and make sense for certain applications (see www.lightingfortomorrow.com ) for some examples. But they are heat sensitive and packing them into something that looks like a standard light bulb isn't a good application for them. And, it will be an expensive device for some time to come. White light LEDs deliver about 30-40 lumens/watt right now compared to 70-80 lumens/watt for CFLs. If you want to see an incandescent to LED replacement that <might> work, go to: http://www.ledlightingfixtures.com/ and notice the heat sink. We'll see shortly if the company can get beyond press releases.
TKM
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I would think that shipping cost would cost as much as the replacement.
Do they pay shipping too?
I was thinking about trying to take them back to Walmart next time they fail. Walmart is pretty good about returning stuff if you have the receipt.
On a side note. I have heard that having the lamps with the base at the bottom lasts longer than having the base at the top. ie desk lamp vs ceiling light. Extra heat on the electronics.
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I've also noticed that the life of my 7 yr bulbs is closer to 90 days for many in the pack. I now keep the receipts and bulb packs.
Recenltly I bought a pack of 3 and 2 of them were defective (very dim).
You should recover the cost in less than a year with normal use.
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 01:51:58 -0400, Bonnie Peebles

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Bonnie Peebles wrote:

That's $2.33 each. It would pay for itself in H hours at C cents/kWh compared to a 50 cent incandescent if HC(100-26)/1000 = 233-50, ie H = 2493/C hours, eg 249 hours at 10 cents/kWh, eg 618 days (1.7 years) if used for 4 hours per day.

Sure.
When I called Commercial Electric with the 800 number printed on the CFs I bought at Home Depot and gave them the date code on the dead bulb, they sent me a new one, free.
Nick
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On 3 Apr 2007 12:29:02 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

I have in front of me 6 power companies and their kwh cost. Not one of them approaches10 cents.
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According to the EIA, the average retail price paid by residential consumers last year was 10.4 cents per kWh.
Source: http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_3.html
Cheers, Paul
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wrote:

Posted rates don't tell the whole story. There are service charges and taxes added on, for example. Take your total bill and divide by the kWh used to get your actual rate. Mine was $0.132/kWh in March. A friend in western New York, however, just paid over $0.30/kWh on vacation home because the fees and taxes swamped the cost of the low kWh use.
TKM
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TKM wrote:

That's not the whole story either, because then the "rate" is dependent on consumption and cannot directly be compared.
It's most accurate to describe the power bill as a linear function of the form "mx + b", where b is a constant charge, m is the rate per kWh, and x is the power usage. This is more complicated, but it reflects the actual billing structure rather than trying to force it into a single number.
Chris
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Hi Terry,
I'm not sure what "additional" charges, if any, are included in the stated price (e.g., stranded debt, transmission & distribution, etc.). The accompanying footnote tells us that "[p]rices are calculated by dividing revenue by sales", so that would suggest it does, in fact, include all of these miscellaneous items and quite possibly the fixed charges as well.
Cheers, Paul
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wrote in message

I agree, Paul, that the 10.4 cents/kWh for the average consumer rate for 2006 is right and includes all the extra charges. There used to be a magazine that published energy rates every month and it was easy to keep track; but I can't find it any more.
Terry McGowan
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Hi Terry,
For those living in California, New York or New England, the first reaction must be "that can't be right! I pay a LOT more than that!" :-0
I'm guessing the national average is skewed by the fact that those who pay more are likely to use less and, by the same token, those living in areas where rates are comparatively low consume more (e.g., electric heat is popular in the Pacific North West but far less so in NY, MA, VT or NH where rates are two to three times higher).
Cheers, Paul
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There are companies selling LED-based light sources. TIR Systems (http://www.tirsys.com ) is one that's located a few miles from me. They were recently purchased by Philips.
But so far they're more expensive than other light sources. It's worth it if you need the ability to change light colour, but they are *less* efficient than CFL. They're more efficient than incandescent, even halogen incandescent, and still getting better so they may pass CFL one day.
    Dave
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