Spa wiring question...

Im about to run wiring for my spa but I had a quick question first. My spa has a gas heater, so is it still necessary to usa a 50amp GFCI or can I use a lower current for this?
Thanks, Evan
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wrote:

That depends entirely on the spa, and what equipment it has. Read the installation manual for your spa for the correct information. If, for some reason you do not have the manual, contact the manufacturer and get it.
BB
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Well, the problem is that our spa is kind of mix-and-match. We just got it used from a friend. Its a Swirl-Way shell, hayward pump and raypack gas heater but other than that...i couldnt say.
BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote:

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wrote:

Most, if not all spa makers use components from other companies. Try contacting Swirl-Way. They probably built the whole thing. You could also try asking your friend some details about how it was installed at his house. What size breaker did he use?
My personal advice would be to do the installation with your NEXT spa in mind. Spas don't last forever! Put in a bigger service than you need for this one, so you won't end up doing the job twice. The breaker and heavier wiring is expensive, but it's really not THAT expensive.
BB

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mind.
one, so

You just told him to fuse his Spa's motor at 50A! If a fault happens in the motor, the windings are going to melt and burn before that breaker trips. Chances are the wiring under the spa will burn too.

Evan: You may want to consider an electrician for this job, it involves water and the risk of shock is very real. If you're really convinced to do it yourself, there should be a metal plate or sticker on the pump motor that will indicate amperage and whatever you do, get it inspected before you energize the circuit. Absolutly do not fuse this thing at 50amps, it doesn't have an electric heater and as thus is not designed for that current.
--

> >BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote:
> >> On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:38:31 -0500, "E. Platt"
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:26:28 -0400, "Steve Smith"

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Except on a unit with an electric heater, the pump is protected seperately, either a via a small fuse panel, inline fuse, or breaker in the motor housing it's self. On a gas unit this reasoning does not always follow. Also keep in mind the OP said this was a used unit, aquired from a friend. Even if new standards say to have fuses somewhere in the gas spa, this unit might not.

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And how am I protected? Unless there is overcurrent protection at the point of connection I am not. As another poster indicated, yes spas are sometimes equiped with there own fusing however nothing in the original poster's message would indicate this is the case here.
In fact, I have seen a gas heated spa that was rated to be connected to a maximum 20amp (12ga) connection. By your reasoning, I should really be able to connect it at 50amps, because you said so.
The point is, you do not know (because you are not there) that the OPs spa is rated to be fused at 50amps, yet you told him it could be. It is always best to error on the side of caution.
--



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On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:27:36 -0400, "Steve Smith"

All spas sold in the U.S. have this protection. All of them.
Whatever pumps and heaters are used are powered through a control. The Service runs to the control, not directly to the pump. If it did, the pump would ALWAYS BE ON AND YOU COULDN"T TURN IT OFF.
Based on what you say, I don't believe for a second that you have ever installed a spa, or know anything about them. Maybe you were in one once.
BB
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http://www.calspas.com/spas/images/Owners_Manual_2003.pdf "1.Use only a dedicated electrical line with a 20-amp breaker."
But I suppose the people who designed these spas have never been in them, right? Or is it that the just don't know what they're talking about?

I bet you pissed yourself in a mentally retarded glee when you figured this one out. Here's some news for you: That control does not neccisarily contain any fusing, unless you're hoping the relays will be the first to melt.... Since you probably don't know what a relay is, we'll just call it 'magic electrical stuff' to make it simple for you.
You should get together with the handyman from the "What happens when..." thread, you'd make a great team! :)
You've completely missed the point, which isn't surprising. This is a GAS HEATED SPA which means it is probably a 120 volt pump, with maybe some lights. Not only that but it is an older, used unit (read: Not certified to today's codes). There is no gaurntee that there is OC protection other than the breaker at the fuse panel.

I worked for 2 years as an electrician apprentice, and installed 3 during that time. 2 were gas heated, one was electrically heated. Both of the gas units were 120volts and were rated for not more than a 20 amp 120v feeder. The control did not contain fusing since if installed correctly, it was unnecessary. The electric unit was fed by a 220v, 50amp circuit and yes, it had push-button reset breakers underneath.
If you ever need a spa installed, call a pro. You're obviously not one.
--



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On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:36:44 -0400, "Steve Smith"

Are you now an electrician?
Have a nice week...
Trent
Certified breast self-exam subcontractor.
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:26:28 -0400, "Steve Smith"

Many spas have additional fuses in the control circuitry, located inside the spa.
Mine is powered via a 60A GFCI breaker. The control panel has individual cartridge fuses for the three motors, the heater, and the control system itself. No single component is capable of drawing the entire 60A.
I'd check the actual spa, then go with the big feed, if other protection is present.
Barry
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message wrote:> Mine is powered via a 60A GFCI breaker. The control panel has

Barry: My problem wasn't neccisarily with the bigger feed if it was possible to do so. The problem is that BinaryBill should not have automaticly assumed additional protection was there. Your advice to check for other protection first is sound, whereas Bill's "wing it and pray" method could hurt someone.
--S
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:31:45 -0400, "Steve Smith"

ALL spas sold in the U.S. have the necessary protection.
I am not assuming anything. You can safely run a 500 amp service to the spa if you wanted to for some reason. The size of the service to the spa is irrelevant, as long as it is at least large enough to handle the load and has a GFCI breaker.
BB
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Alright Ill interject here again. It makes sense to me that the current could be as high as you want it with a GFCI breaker. If I understand correctly how the breaker works, it just compares the current on each leg, tripping if theres a difference reguardless of the supposed current. As it is, we havnt bought the new conrol yet so I cant tell you about that. The old control was a metal box with two contactors, a transformer and a couple switches so I dont think there was any fusing in the control although there might be one in the motor. Ill check on that...
Thanks, Evan
BinaryBillThesailor@Sea++.com wrote:

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Not correct. A GFCI breaker will trip if the load exceeds the breaker's rating, *or* if there is a ground fault.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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Spas normally have a wiring diagram, or look up the Hayward pump requirements. By the way, only one pump, no blower or lighting? No wonder your friend got rid of it... :)
Jeff
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 16:06:33 -0500, "E. Platt"

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Sounds like your friend rewired (or someone did) the unit to bypass the manufacturer's controls (and removed the control entirely). Possibly a unit that was removed from a rotting surround and now is an in-deck install or the like. This isn't necessarily bad or even uncommon, though it's often against code since noibody seems to wire the control switches far enough away. New controllers can be ordered, even those for electric heaters which include the element only run a few hundred dollars. Less than a new spa.

You may want *two* types of repair people there, one the dealer/manufacturer repair guy and the other a licensed electrician. I know plenty of electricians who can't/won't work on a spa beyond wiring the feed, and plenty of service people who won't touch the feed.
Jeff
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