Solder of Braze "copper" convector?

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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Okay. Thanks.
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On 1/6/2014 10:00 AM, TomR wrote:

Your current newsreader will display any downloaded message. Given:
You do not unsubscribe to the newsgroup and/or catch it up. Even then it still could.
You do not have any settings set to delete downloaded content. I don't recall exactly how OE does things. So, this might not be an option for the program, anyway.
Just to check, click on this newsgroup (already here if you are reading this), then go up to the menu bar at the top of the window. There should be a "View" option. Click on this and a "Current view" option should be at the top of the next menu. You will want to select the "Show all messages" after you are done with the following.
If you are reading this message, make sure that it is opened in its own window. If you do not know how to do this, double click on the message. Minimize the new window. This message should still be highlighted in the main window. To make things simple, just "right click" on this message and select the "Mark as unread" option.
Okay, the steps above are a bit redundant, but I have you do this to keep you from losing your place.
If you still have this message open in its own window, continue to ignore it.
In the main window a whole bunch of messages should be visible. If not, reply to this message and await further instructions. By selecting the "View" option and "Current view", then selecting "Show only unread" or something to that effect, most of the messages should go away. Assuming, of course, that you have read a majority of this group before starting this.
Regardless, this message should still be unread. It is possible to mark this message unread in that window I told you to ignore.
I only state this so that you may have a chance to change a setting in the Tools --> Options ---> (select the read tab)Read menu. Uncheck the "Mark all messages as read when leaving" or something box.
There is another setting just for newsgroups that I forget where it is at, but it is an option to mark messages read after a specified amount of time. Uncheck that as well, or up the quantity a bit.
There are other ways to modify how OE works, along with other programs, but stick with OE until you learn how to move around and set things up.
It is always possible to hunt this thread down using (barf) google groups, but I that is its own bunch of crap to deal with. Google ruined Usenet.
On that note, good luck!
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SteveF wrote:

Thanks. I did some of the above -- I clicked on View, and my current setting is set to Show All Messages. I usually click Mark All As Read (or something like that) fairly often since I don't want to read every message (especially the stupid "OT" ones, the political crap ones, and the sick nonsense ones). I think maybe some of the rest of what you were suggesting was to mark this thread (or a message in this thread) as Unread so I can save it for the future, but I'm not sure. I wouldn't want to do that since it would get undone by my "Mark All As Read" routine.
I do have my settings set to save all Sent messages, so I can go and find old Sent messages there, I guess open them if needed, and send a Reply in the future.
And, I do think that if I never "Reset" or "Catch Up" (or whatever it is called), I probably end up keeping all of the old messages.
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Silk purse out of a sow's ear - the core is week, but they got enough solder on it that it will likely last another 5-10 years. I'd say it's likely been seeping for some time and corroded the fins.
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NotMe wrote:

I am not going to be losing any sleep over the fact that the solder job doesn't look pretty. They fixed it and it works, and no one will ever see the solder job -- and the whole fix only cost 79 bucks.
I don't see how making the solder job look more pretty would result in it lasting any longer. When looking at it in person, it is clear that it is not a cold solder joint -- the solder did adhere completely to the metal, and it looks like they built up extra solder to help support the joint to help prevent it from cracking during installation etc.
Do you do this type of work for a living? I am not trying to be snide; I am just curious about what your background and/or experience is that led you to conclude that this was a "Piss poor job. Repeat failure is not a matter of if, but of when."
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I've done radiator repairs, and prety isn't at the top of the list. Job looks functional to me.
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On 1/6/2014 10:47 AM, TomR wrote:

I'm wondering if the radiator was manufactured with soft solder? I've done a lot of soft solder work like plumbing lines but most of what I did in the last decade was silver solder brazing on refrigeration equipment. I even have some special solder that allows me to braze steel to copper or aluminum or what ever the mix. Brazing is a lot stronger than soft solder but if not done correctly, it can be brittle. One good thing about a radiator shop is the fact that the shop will have a water tank handy all the time for pressure testing to watch for air bubbles when the repairman pressurizes the item and submerges it in the tank. I must borrow a big garbage can and fill it with water. ^_^
TDD
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Way back when I worked for NASA/FAA. From the photo alone the work would not pass even basic visual QC muster.
Age old question why is there never time/interest in doing the job right but always time to do it over.
Pretty is not the goal but pretty is usually (but not always) an indication of properly.
Quick review some areas have too much heat = oxidation = weak joint, others have too little = a cold junction both = subject to failure.
The base appears to be insuffently heated and poorly applied flux, Second the junction metal over heated but not allowed to flow. I could tell more if I have the finished work in hand.
If this is not a mission critical fix and.or is not in a place where failure will cause damage you can get by. Just keep in mind you'll be doing the job again.
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NotMe wrote:

Well, the convector is still working fine. No leaks, no problems. Situation is solved, tenant is happy and has good heat; and I didn't have to open the ceiling below, run new pipes up through the floor, buy and put in a replacement cast iron radiator, buy or build and install a new or used radiator cover to cover the new radiator, then repair and paint the ceiling below.
No, I didn't send the newly-soldered convector into space on a manned or unmanned spacecraft, so no "mission critical" QC testing was need or was performed. The radiator repair place did pressure test the convector after fixing it and it passed the test.
I see now where you are coming from. You worked on and in a mission critical environment where every solder joint was part of a mega-million dollar spacecraft where tons of money and/or people's lives were at stake. My hot water heat convector is still here on earth and appears to be happy and content. If the repair job fails sometime in the future, no lives will be lost.
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Where I come from water leaks can and often are expensive.
Like I said never time to do it right but always time to do it over.
Learning how to do it right is not difficult.
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NotMe wrote:

Okay, this is getting silly, but I'll play along. Where I come from is where the property, the convector in question, and the leak in question is located. And, since it already leaked once, I know what the cost of that water leak at that location is -- virtually nil in this case.

There is plenty of time to do it "right", to do it over, or to do it as I had it done. I am here, and you are someplace else. I can see what was done and how it was done, and it's fine. In fact, it was done "right" -- not aerospace mission-critical right, but definitely here-on-Earth right for the situation.

Learning what is an appropriate level of workmanship and quality control for the job at hand is also not difficult.
I usually try to stay out of these types of discussions here, but I think you may be being a little too judgmental about this. I do get that you are just expressing your opinion and pointing out how you would have wanted to handle this type of property owner repair.
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On 1/23/2014 7:56 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

With auto body repair, some shops use a fiberglass mesh, with Bondo or other sealant. I've wondered if a copper mesh can be put over leaks, fluxxed, and then solder applied. Seems like the copper mesh would provide some substance to the repair.
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On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 08:07:24 -0500, Stormin Mormon

i HAVE done repairs where I wound thin bare copper wire around the joint/repair and then soldered the wound wire onto the object being repaired,
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On 1/4/2014 3:44 PM, TomR wrote:

Looks effective, to me. Thanks for sharing. Nice to know how things work out.
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More heat. if the solder isn't sticking, the copper is either not clean enough or not hot enoug - most often the latter if working with a standard propane torch. A high swirl torch on propane, or better yet, MAPP gas will produce the required heat - a normal old-school bernzomatic straight flame torch on propane doesn't stand a chance.
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Sounds like a very reasonable approach and solution. Let us know the results!!!
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snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net wrote:

Will do. I assume that I will get it back from the radiator shop tomorrow (1/2/2014) or Friday.
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Like you said, not pretty, but who cares, it's a radiator. It's good to know the collective wisdom here does save time and $$.
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snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net wrote:

I agree.

Also agree.
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On 1/6/2014 10:42 AM, TomR wrote:

On 1/4/2014 10:06 AM, Mike wrote:
> But, I read about the Wizard's first rule long ago in a science fiction > book. His first rule was people are stupid. That is they will say > and/or believe anything.
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