Snaked drain line all day, still problems.

[raymondj]

I have the all too common (1) bubbles coming up through the tiolet or (2) soap suds coming into the tiolet from the washing machine or (3) all of the water being sucked out of the tiolet (siphoned?) when the washing machine drains.

In my laudry room I have a vent pipe that goes to the roof. About 4 feet above the ground on the vent line is a clean out. The washing machine and sink hook into the vent just below the clean out. The tiolet hooks in at the bottom where the waste line goes for about

20 feet under the house where it comes out in the basement and goes out to the septic system.

I have snaked the hell out of this line, from the septic to the tiolet, from the clean out to the septic and from the cleanout to the roof. I snaked it using an electric snake with every possible adapter on the end. I got nothing to come out and the line looks pretty clean from what I can see.

What else is there to do?????????????

The laundry room is on its own waste line and is at ground level (compared to the rest of the house which is on higher floors and has better pitch.

With the air bubbles or siphon I thought the vent was clogged it isn't. With the soap coming into the tiolet I thougth the line was clogged ????

I would think that maybe the septic is at fault but the rest of the house is okay.

What about where the machine machine hose going into the waste line ? Should that line be tight. Maybe I need a little air gap here?

Would a pluber have a better snake or do anything different?

[Speedy Jim]

Yes, the water is being siphoned out of the toilet. That can happen when the washer discharges a great big slug of water down the drain. There is enough water to completely fill the sewer. As the slug of water passes by the toilet branch, it creates a pretty good vacuum.

The proper fix for this is to add a vent connection to the branch serving the toilet. Thay may be impractical if the room is finished.

I don't think having the washer hose fit loosely in the drain will help but may be worth a try. A better fix is to dump the washer water into the laundry sink; from there it can discharge slowly into the sewer.

[SQLit]

I have had pretty good luck with the adaptors that screw on to an hose. They expand and squirt water. Trick is to get it in the right place. I would start out with one of these and a couple of gallons of Ammonia. Put 1/2 quart down each drain, then use hot water to drain. Kitchen sinks and bath sinks need to be filled to the brim, with hot water, then pull the plug with the hot water still running. Use the adaptor in places like your washing machine. I had the same problem when my washer was not filtering out the leftovers from each wash. I tried to fix it but ended up with an new washer. Drop it down the vent to just below where the sink/washer connects to the drain. You have an clean out so that should make it pretty easy. Turn on full blast and listen, usually you can hear when the clog has moved.

1/2 quart of Ammonia down each drain every month.. I get my ammonia at the 99 cent store. Ammonia cuts the grease and lets the water pressure do the rest. A couple of packets of yeast in a glass of warm water and down the kitchen sink when your done to help the septic tank get some new buggies...

I hope this helps

[willshak]

On 12/5/2004 6:51 PM US(ET), raymondj took fingers to keys, and typed the following:

I don't know what you mean by tight, but I was told (by appliance servicemen) that the washing machine drain hose should just hang into the open end of the stand pipe. That's why the drain hose has a moulded hook end, and not some fitting to seal off the stand pipe. The stand pipe should have a trap built into it before it enters the waste line to prevent odors venting out of the open end.

[brisket smoker]

This advice for a septic tank is completely useless. Yeast survives but does not thrive in an anaerobic environment. Quit dumping grease AND ammonia into your tank. Quit dumping anything solid down there that hasn't gone through you first. Restrict your water, and quit dumping chemicals, enzymes, "buggies", garbage disposal waste, etc. in it.

Imagine: 1 cup bleach, ammonia, Pine-Sol or (insert other household cleaning solution here), taking on 1000 gallons of pure sewer water, "buggies" included.............not a real fair fight. If it were going to do any real harm to a healthy system, it would kill you in the process.

[Joseph Meehan]

I agree with much that has already been noted, but I will add that your problem may be aggravated by a blocked vent. You may want to snake from the roof down to make sure it is clear.

[poison_1024]

[poison_1024]

It does hang into the pipe but it's quite snug.

[willshak]

On 12/6/2004 11:43 AM US(ET), poison [e-mail] took fingers to keys, and typed the following:

Then it is probably sealed airtight. Stick a long screwdriver down inside the standpipe between the hose and standpipe to provide air flow past the snug hose and see if it alleviates the problem when the washer is running.

[poison_1024]

What part of "snaked from the cleanout to the roof. " and "snaked from the cleanout to the septic" did you not get?

[poison_1024]

There is a vent serving the toilet, one for all three units the washing machine and sink tie into the vent which is directly behind the toilet and goes to the roof. No other floors or fixtures tie into this. Unless you mean something else in addition to this?

[Speedy Jim]

Probably looks like:

Roof | | washer---U--|-----U----sink |

[Joseph Meehan]

" ..from the cleanout to the roof."

I could be dangerous if I learned to read. :-)

[poison_1024]

Not sure if I got your image right (I tried to view it with a non-proportional font.)

Basically the vent is in between the washer and the sink. Both washer and sink have a trap. The toilet is directly in front of the vent pipe.

Someone mentioned to me that where the washing machine and sink connect to the vent they should have been connected at 45 degree angles (WYE) and be offset from each other. My situation is that they are directly across from each other and at 90 degree connections. Although the connecting pipes are pitched towards the vent.

[poison_1024]

I also read a little about a "suds control zone" perhaps this is what's causing the problem. I do know that the first wash cycle is fine, it's the subsequent ones that have problems and get worse.

I guess the test is to run the washing machine without any soap for 3 cycles and see if the same problem occurs. If it doesn't, then I can probably suspect the soap is the problem. Although the 90 degree drain connections could be making the situation worse. Supposedly the 45 degree connections help the water "spin" correctly down the drain line.

I've also read that if the flap valve on the toilet is not 100% then this can help make the problem worse. I noticed a couple of weeks ago that the toilet does fill up periodically during the day, and so I replaced the old flap valve.

[Speedy Jim]

a dbl San TEE. This is the way 2 drains can be connected into the stack. (Not permitted everywhere, but this *does* work and vents both traps.) The use of WYE fittings would not be appropriate here.

Sudsing *can* be a problem, especially near the base of the stack, which is apparently where the toilet is located.

As I mentioned earlier, dumping the washer outlet into the sink would probably solve the flow problem, if that's practical.

A "suds relief vent" can be added near the base of the stack, but it's a lot of work and I wouldn't guarantee it to work with the toilet right there. If the toilet had been connected maybe 10 feet further downstream there likely wouldn't be any problem (that's academic at this point...)

Jim

[Speedy Jim]

Ouch! Thanks for the reminder. I had prefs on the new reader set wrong! This *should* be fixed width:

Roof | | washer---U--|--U----sink |

[poison_1024]

Two wye fittings one on top of the other wouldn't work? ____ | \| _____ |/ | |

So both lines run horizontal until they each hit the 45 degree piece. One is above the other to prevent pressure from one going into the other's drain. (Not sure if I really have that problem.)

I looked at the URL you posted. My vent is not PVC, it is either brass or copper (as are all of my other drains and vents that are above the ground.) Not sure of the size but it's the same as the other vents on the house and smaller than the main line (which I believe is cast iron under the concrete floor.) I don't know if the brass T that is in my line has the slopped walls like the sanitary T. I doubt it. But keep in mind a toilet is not draining into the T so I don't know how worried I should be.

I had a new foundation put in and the plumber effectively moved the T up further on the stack to clear the foundation wall. I'm surprised he didn't say anything or maybe he thought "it's working now, so I'll just put it back."

[Speedy Jim]

The copper San Tee may not look exactly like that one. The purpose is to maintain a path to the vent (roof) for each of the 2 traps, no matter what flow is occurring.

Using 2 WYES, one above the other, the lower WYE always sees a vacuum when flow from the upper one occurs. ALSO, flow from either one can cause self-siphoning of its trap. All this is kinda academic and has nothing to do with the toilet. But that's why a Dbl San TEE is used.

Jim