"Smart" Meters made them sick

Page 7 of 13  


That can only be good.
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program since the Social Security tax.

If sized about right, you use the power grid as your 'storage battery'. In this fellows case, the house is empty most of the day. The power time of day usage is higher, then he and family is home at night. Daytime power cost is about 15 cents per hour, and night time power is about 5 cents per hour. So he is selling most of the power at a higher rate and buying it back at a lower rate.
Think I said he show a bill where his usage was a negative $ 51 for the month. He will not get payed for this, but will be able to apply it to a month with a positive usage if he has one.
This fellow is not that rich, but smart enough to work the system. I think he calculated his payback was 5 or 6 years, but the power comapny has has one rate hike and is asking for another 10% so the payback is going to be slightly less, especially if they average 5% or more every year.
One other thing that helps is to have enough land to put up the big collectors. He had 2 that were 16 feet each way and I think he installed another one mainly for his electric car.
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On 2/13/2013 2:18 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

not uncommon. my bill for electricity for the entire last year was -$40. in az. with 2 air conditioners on my house, and running a kiln for days at a time.
i calculated my payback before i purchased the system at 4.5 years. i'm on track to beat that by a few months if there are no rate increases. if there are some, then it will be even earlier.
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wrote:

Well it would cost you just as much to build any other form of power generation. At least with solar PV, the householder gets the money rather than the banksters.
The present total cost for solar power will be the normal price for electricity in a few years.
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Which of course is a lie, demonstrated the world over.

Which of course is another lie. The $50K cost of a system doesn't go to the homeowner. It goes to the producers and installers of the eqpt. A good part of that $50K is picked up by the govt using borrowed or printed money. The remainder the homeowner eventually gets back over time in the form of energy cost savings, more utility handouts of other homeowner's money, etc. Govt subsidies can't take something that is economically uncompetitive and change the basic economics.
And then factor in all the other money that has been poured down the solar rat hole. Solyndra being a good example of money going to those that are politically connected. More money borrowed or printed that resulted in total failure. They built a $700bil manufacturing facility using govt money that was uncompetitive the day it opened.

Sure it will. Just like clowns like you told us the price of natural gas would skyrocket 20 years ago. Today it's price is moderate, because of all the new supply coming on line. Even with oil, the USA output is steadily increasing and we are now forecasted to become the largest producer in the world by 2020. If Obama and the libs were not in the way, we'd be there in half the time.
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Yes you are about right. In the UK we are paid for all the power we generate. The rate is tax free and inflation linked. The return is about 18% on outlay for me. The deal you get now is less good but better than leaving money in the bank at near zero interest rates.
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wrote:

We had a place in the mountains (E Tenn./W NC) that was 100% off grid. ROI pay out was ~5/6 years. Still working when we sold ~ 20 years. We made a good profit on the sale. over and above the value of the land/improvements. During a few ice storms we were the only 'bright' spot on the mountain for miles around.
We had a LPG gen set for standby power that was run ONLY for maintance.
Theory don't mean sh|t if it don't work in the real world.
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On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 05:16:31 -0500, Harry Johnson

Where is that? Jimmy Carter land?
Have you heard about natural gas?
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On Feb 13, 3:18 pm, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Heh Heh. The cost of all fossil fuels is set to rise. If your fuel can be sold elsewhere for more money. it will be sent there, don't you worry. More fuel has been found but there are lots more people want it. Like the Chinese and Indians.
Meanwhile it is foolish to squander it. You Yanks never learn.
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When and if it gets high enough so that solar and wind become viable, THEN the free market will start to adopt them. Ever hear of fracking and what it's done to natural gas prices?

We foolish yanks are on our way to becoming the world's largest oil producer by 2020. We'd be there in half that time if it weren't for Obama and egg head libs, like you harry.
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wrote:

Even if true, it will be expensive and more polluting and more inefficient to extract. than ever. It will be sent to whoever pays the most. They won't be sending it to your gas station down the road to save you a few bucks.
You are just an American slave to your rich elite who don't give a f**k about you. No-one gives a toss about you, least of all your government. And least of all, republican/bankster governments. You need a proper revolution (as in Russia and Cuba).
It takes time to make a transfer to other power sources. Decades. We already know that leaving such things to banksters and "markets" is disastrous. They are only concerned about a quick buck today. Or people that are not shitferbrains know anyway.
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wow, harry. You really think so? Maybe you're not as totally dumb as you appear to be.

Yes, two of your favorite countries. And look at what it's gotten them. Cuba for example. They are still driving 1955 Chevys.

Disasterous? We went from sail power to steamships just fine. From wagon trains to the steam locomotive. From water mills to steam power. From kerosene lamps to electricity. From trains to airplanes. From horses to autos.
Now tell us how much energy the govt produced from the billions Jimmy Carter spent developing shale oil in the 70s? How many solar panels has Solyndra produced? How much money has the govts failed effort at ethanol cost all the consumers? Not just the price of gas, but the huge price increase on bread, cornflakes, and meat? How many more deaths has it caused in Africa, where the price of grains has also risen?

You'd know about shitferbrains, that's for sure.
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Harry Johnson wrote:

Free? Well, if you are on the government dole, perhaps.
The amount of the sun's energy falling on the earth is about 1300 watts/sq meter. At the equator. At noon. With no clouds.
Assuming 50% efficiency of a photovalactic converter, to supply enough electricity for California (~50GW) and adjusting for latitude, 12 hours (average) of darkness, and cloud cover, you would need a solar farm of approximately 1,200 sq miles.
This is about the size of the Los Angeles basin.
Can you imagine the cost to construct and maintain such a behemoth?
This idea can, however, be improved by moving the orbit of the earth closer to the sun, which is just as practicle.
The good news about the plan, though, is that everybody in Los Angeles would be living in the shade.
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wrote:

OTOH, can you imagine a better use for the Los Angeles basin?

Speaking of "Global Warming"!

Everyone in California is living in the dark now.
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Yes, harry is as clueless as ever. Probably 95%+ of the solar installed is at spots that already have power. Here in NJ, in addition to seeing small ones on utility poles, there are bigger arrays on the roofs of a lot of homes and businesses. They don't work without the grid being alive. If the grid goes down, you have no power.
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wrote:

Well shitfer that is intentional, it is a safety and cost thing. But you haven't the wit to understand this. There are standalone systems but they are much more expensive.
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Safety thing? Cost thing? Clueless as ever. The essence of the problem is that without the grid, the power from a solar array would vary all over the place. What do you think would happen to your furnace or TV every time a cloud came by?

You haven't the wit to understand that those solar panels mounted on utility poles by the power company are obviously connected to the grid. THAT is what you were replying to.
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wrote:

Of course domestic PV are connected to the grid shitfer. How else can power be exported? One reason they are disconnected on power failure/outage to prevent them feeding back into the grid and electrocuting whoever is making the repair.
BTW, the ones on poles are not "obviously connected to the grid" I can think of several reason why this might nor be so. All of them to do with money.
Micro-power generation is beneficial because it can be connected to the grid without needing to enlarge/modify the grid, the power generated is used locally. Also it is more secure, if one generator goes down,it's neither here nor there.
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And yet you posted that the solar panels someone saw mounted along the road on utility poles are used where running grid power is too difficult or impossible. Go figure. Those panels too are connected to the grid, dumb ass.

They are not just "disconnected". More importantly without the grid, they no longer provide power to the house. You could disconnect them, just like a standby generator if backfeeding was the issue.

Look dumb ass. The poster was talking about solar panels on utility poles in NJ. You don't live here, so why do you insist on making an ass of yourself? The ones he's talking about are installed by the power company and most certainly grid connected.

Well, yeah. Gee, maybe that's why they are connected to the grid, dumb ass.
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On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 23:12:34 -0800 (PST), harry

The ones in Jersey are feeding back into the grid.
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