"Smart" meters can save the power company


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O.K.
They just left
GET THIS !
They tested with my smart meter with their own power company [equipment] and VERIFIED it WAS doubling the load!!
THEN they installed another brand new smart meter to test it again.
Well guess what...
The NEW smart meter ALSO SHOWED A DOUBLE USAGE READING!
This is by the power company with their own equipment!
So then they put back on my old analogue meter and tested with that..
Of course it showed almost perfect reading..
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http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic 7802.0
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Goes to show you, not everybody reads the instruction manual. Or gets the right part off the shelf. Or gets the right part number on the box. Some think the level of incompetence is rising faster than credit card debt. Scary.
Joe
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the nut behind the wheel can make all the difference, tnx 4 the heads up !
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I have yet to hear any logical explanation of exactly how "smart electric meters" are going to do much of anything to save energy or enable more green energy. Every single newspaper article discussing the subject is pure bable and hyperbole. They make claims like "It will enable power from a windmill three states away to be delivered to your home. It will allow the solar panels on your neighbors house to power your home...."
Both of those things are done today with the conventional grid. Until I see some logical explanation, I'm assuming this is just another big govt waste, passed in the middle of the night, just because we HAD to have it. The ones getting rich will be the companies making and installing all these millions of meters.
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote: ...

... Starting last first... :)
Those things specifically _aren't_ actually done; at best the windmill somewhere in the Midwest can displace a few electrons that otherwise would have flowed to you but there's no way the actual generation specifically from that location arrive in your outlets...(and, yes, I know you know that, just amplifying some).
And, of course, "smart meters" aren't going to change that, either.
What they can do is cut peak loading by demand-based load limiting and similar techniques.
More interesting is farther up the food chain than individual residence metering to the distribution grid itself where better control could make significant improvements in grid loss by solid state transformers, better thermal sensing and control of line sag, etc. Discussion and deployment of DC transmission for long-distance is another area that is on the horizon as losses are significantly lower and as noted above solid-state devices now do allow for high-voltage step-up/down that before required conventional transformers.
There are benefits; as noted, unfortunately, the common press reporter is so ill-informed and scientifically ignorant there's almost no hope of any general circulation story having any factual basis behind it that makes any sense... :(
--
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And how exactly is a smart meter going to limit demand? This is exactly the type of statement that I'm talking about. A supposed benefit that makes no sense. Unless the house is rewired/modified so the smart meter can shed specific loads, like turn off the AC or water heater, then any meter that replaces the current one isn't going to shed any load, unless it turns off the current to the entire house.

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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote: ...

Well, DOH!... :(
--
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Except that the current federal plan to REPLACE existing meters doesn't call for anything in the house to be rewired or modified, so the question remains. Exactly what will replacing millions of existing meters with "smart meters" due to save energy, enable green energy, etc?
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Except that the current federal plan to REPLACE existing meters doesn't call for anything in the house to be rewired or modified, so the question remains. Exactly what will replacing millions of existing meters with "smart meters" due to save energy, enable green energy, etc?
************************************************************************ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_meter
Since the inception of electricity deregulation and market-driven pricing throughout the world, government regulators have been looking for a means to match consumption with generation. Traditional electrical meters only measure total consumption and as such provide no information of when the energy was consumed. Smart meters provide an economical way of measuring this information, allowing price setting agencies to introduce different prices for consumption based on the time of day and the season.
Electricity pricing usually peaks at certain predictable times of the day and the season. In particular, if generation is constrained, prices can rise significantly during these times as more expensive sources of power are purchased from other jurisdictions or more costly generation is brought online. It is believed that billing customers by how much is consumed and at what time of day will force consumers to adjust their consumption habits to be more responsive to market prices. Regulatory and market design agencies hope these "price signals" will delay the construction of additional generation or at least the purchase of energy from higher priced sources, thereby controlling the steady and rapid increase of electricity prices
- - - - - - - - - - - -
The way I read this, the customer can be billed a different rate at high demand times. That would be an incentive for them to reduce their use during high rate times. Now, the utilities ask up to postpone running the dryer or dishwasher until late at nigh, but the power of persuasion gets easier if you see the meter running.
As a consumer, we have a set rate from the utility company. Big industry often buys power on a daily, even hourly basis. If the utility company knows and can predict demand better, they can shop better too. The "savings" come in two places. It can reduce total demand by making the consumer aware of what he is paying and he may elect to turnt he AC off. The other part is that it can make it easier to plan ahead and buy cheaper power ahead of time.
The meter is not going to reduce the power needed to run a particular appliance. If you need 1100 watts, with the old meter, you still need 1100 watts with the new meter. If there was a display in the house showing the month to date electric bill and the cost per hour at this moment, I bet a lot of people would start shutting down the lights and space heaters, etc.
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They just want an excuse to come into your house and see what there is to steal.
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ktos posted for all of us...

1) Tax 2)Outlaw 3)Steal/seize - like firearms...
--
Tekkie Don\'t bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

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its all of the above,
it's an ip based device, -usage can be billed at minute by minute rates -the meter can disconnect service remotely, non-payment, walking blackouts etc -the usage can be viewed realtime by a homeplug based display in the house. -this display can be programmed to adjust smart thermostats and delay high use appliances by using x-10 or homeplug modules. (water heater, laundry, dish washer) -software for your pc can do the same as the display.
the displays/controllers are available now, for around $200. some diy's have demos for the displays and pc software where the meters are now provisioned.
the utilities now have the means to bill about the same way airlines price seats. and best of all, they let you make the choice. (you decided to use those 80cent kwhs')
and we get the opportunity to pay an additional $5/mo for the next 11 years to pay for their upgrade. (there are also substantial stimulus funds being paid to the same utilities for the same meter... as "smart grid" funding.)
At least the rest of you will be on par with our Texas highest "power of choice" electric rates in the US brought to us by Bush and Wood, just before they packed off to DC some 9 years ago. beware of politicians helpin' you out ;-)
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larry/dallas wrote:

The overall idea of "smart grid" makes a lot of sense. Anyone who has an emergency backup generator for their house that is smaller capacity than the normal utility service as most are understands load management. Some of the largest residential electrical loads are also the ones that are not particularly time critical. Air conditioning and electric based heat (heat pump or resistive) both are quite flexible in their running time needs due to the thermal mass of the house. Alternating HVAC run times with neighbors can make a pretty large difference in peak grid loads. Similar improvments are possible with electric water heating, pool pumps, and some other items. All of this can reduce the need for grid upgrades and new power plants, and can provide grid capacity for charging electric vehicles where viable.
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Again, the current plan, as I understand it, is to replace millions of conventional meters with "smart" ones. Unless you make other significant changes to the existing house, that new meter isn't going to be able to turn off the AC or any other load.

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larry/dallas wrote:

Texas is not the highest - we're somewhere in the middle (#36 out of 51). http://www.neo.ne.gov/statshtml/115.htm
Texas is, however, a special case. We are not connected to the national grid*. It costs a bit more, sometimes, to assert one's independence.
---------- * There's a teeny interconnection near Longview via Louisiana and another on the Oklahoma border. Both are inconsequential. Other than that, the rest of the nation can go dark and it won't affect us.
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I'm proud to be paying the #50 rates.
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wrote:

I'm in one of the few Texas cities that's not "deregulated", where we have lower rates.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us
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dpb wrote:

The utility in my area is offering smart thermostats at a discount price. These thermostats give you a web GUI to play with and also allow the utility to turn off A/C loads for a 15 minute window when they have high demand on the grid.
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On Aug 29, 11:10am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Cant they shut your neighborhood off when they want, thats limit demand.
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