Small engine troubleshooting

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A friend is having trouble with a small (5-7HP) engine. Not starting. Aside from checking for spark (after ensuring no "old" fuel present), I can't think of any easy tests that he can perform...?
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On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:04:14 -0700, Don Y

Squirt a little gas right into the carb throat and see if it runs a few seconds
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Squirt a little gas directly into the spark plug hole (spark plug removed). Put plug back in and then try and restart it. This will tell you if you have a problem with the carburator. .
nb
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On 1/12/2016 12:47 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I wouldn't trust him to do this. If I knew he had a can of "hot shot", I might suggest it (as that is somewhat self-limiting in terms of quantity).
Pulling a plug wire and watching for a spark is relatively easy to "get right"...
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On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 20:07:58 -0700, Don Y

Just don't sqirt the gas in while it is cranking over. I used to have an old gasoline blowtorch I used to squirt gas into intakes - if it backfired I turned off the valve and there was no chance of the fire coming back up into the "squirter"
I got my first teaching gig when an instructor poured gas down the carb of a chevy six in the auto shop and it backfired. He got pretty badly burned - was off work for 9 months and was still pretty tender when he returned the following september.
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On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 22:44:37 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

P&M because I'm 4 days late answering.

I did that, around 1973. I was in a dark garage working on my brother's car while he was out of town and I guess I was in a hurry.
So I sprayed ether, tried to start it and check for the spark at the same time.
As you can guess, it blew up in my face.
Fortunately, I barely moved a muscle and I didn't hit my head on the hood or the ridge of the hood.
But I did blow off one of the valve covers on his big V-8. The sheet metal was bent up around 3 or 4 of the bolts holding it on. In one case the side was ripped out of the hole.
Then I found that they don't sell valve covers even at the dealer. I'd have had to go to a junk yard, and there are none of those in NYC and few nearby. And I'd have to find a bad engine that they sell parts off of.
So I went to a speed shop and bought a pair of chrome valve covers, but I only put one of them on. He didn't complain.
(I think earlier I'd put, in this '70 Ford convertible, an FM (radio) converter where the clock would have been if it had had one, and I'd done such a nice job that some mechanic complimented him on it. So now I'd damaged his car but I was even.)
I got the cover on and I guess I got the car started before he got back from his vacation.

Wow. 9 months.
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wrote:

The guy who taught me the trade was previously the service manager in a GM dealership. They had a new truck (637 v6) come in with a leaky oil pan - one of the baffle spot-welds was burned through. The mechanic decided to "just braze it shut", - drained the crankcase, lit the torch, crawled underneeth and proceded to attempt to braze it. About a minute or so into the job there was "one hell of a bang" and the mechanic came shooting out from under the truck like a rocket. To make a long story short they ended up replacing the valley cover, both valve covers, the timing cover seal, AND the oil pan. They found the dipstick on the other side of the shop several weeks later, and never did find the oil filler cap. They suspected it was burried in the accoustic insulation panels in the ceiling of the shop.
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On 1/16/2016 10:10 AM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Sounds like a bit of a surprise. Hope no one was injured.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
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On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:14:55 -0500, Stormin Mormon

I think a few pair of undershorts needed changing.
It was remembering what Frank told us that made me flush the Riv with hot water, then fill the crankcase with CO2 when I had to do the oilpan repair years later..
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On 1/16/2016 2:06 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

That sounds like a wise approach. I'd not want to explode like that.
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Christopher A. Young
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On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 14:15:25 -0500, Stormin Mormon

It is about a 20 hour job to replace the oil pan on one of those Rivs - and Ron Day (Martial arts master from Kitchener) had to be in Chi-town for a match the next day - so no time to do the job "right" - he hit a re-bar sticking out of a parking curb hidden in the snow, slicing the oil pan real good.- just as he was ready to leave town. He knew if anyone in town could get him going it was me. I ran about 10 gallons of real HOT water through from the carwash bay while I sent my apprentice to the safety supply to get a 20 lb CO2 extinguisher. By the time he got back I had the patch cut to size and "tinned" with brass. Put the apprentice under the hood, car on the hoist, and told him to give it a good blast of CO2 and then a short blast every half minute or so to keep it full - and I sweat-brazed the patch on, then brazed the edge all around, tapping the heated edge of the patch up snug to the pan before filling the edge.
Had Ron back on the road in just over 2 hours. - no flames, no smoke, no "bang"
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On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 04:32:28 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster

I know a guy used to fix gas tanks by running car exhaust into them for 15 minutes before welding, and while welding.
Know another guy (former high-school classmate) who swore filling the tank with water was the way to do it - untill one day he was attempting to braze a tank (which took LOTS of heat because the tank was full of water) when all of a sudden the tank started to move - then hit him in the chest as it emptied the water out through the filler in one big "bellch" and bulged the tank beyond repair. I guess there was enough gas trapped in a rusty corner to combine with oxygen freed by heating the rust? that it lit. It sure wasn't because he boiled the water - - -
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Nitrogen is used in refrigeration lines to keep the copper from forming copper oxide and flaking off and stopping up the system. If the system has been in use some refrigerants will produce phosgrene gas when heated and that isa poison gas. Probably no enough left in the system to cause a problem by the time to braze the pipes.
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As long as we're having an orgy of spelling corrections, it's actually
Phosgene: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosgene
<<Phosgene is the chemical compound with the formula COCl2. This colorless gas gained infamy as a chemical weapon during World War I where it was responsible for about 85% of the 100,000 deaths caused by chemical weapons. . . Its high toxicity arises from the action of the phosgene on the proteins in the pulmonary alveoli, the site of gas exchange: their damage disrupts the blood-air barrier, causing suffocation. . . anecdotal reports suggest that numerous refrigeration technicians suffered the effects of phosgene poisoning due to their ignorance of the toxicity of phosgene, produced during older flame-based leak detection tests. >>
Not related in any way to phospene or phospine - (What, DerbyDad, no phospheen? (-: )
--
Bobby G.



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Uncle Monster posted for all of us...

He would have to use some kind of SCBA.
--
Tekkie

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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca posted for all of us...

Fire in the hole!
--
Tekkie

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On 1/12/2016 2:04 PM, Don Y wrote:

Remove spark plug, and clean it. Check for "wet" with gasoline.
Does it start with a spray of ether onto the air cleaner?
Is the oil filled up to the full line on the dip stick?
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Christopher A. Young
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On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 15:30:17 -0500, Stormin Mormon

This has always worked on cars, but when I got that motor scooter, which probably has water in the gas tank, spraying ether into the air cleaner never reallly made it run. Maybe a little but most of the time nothing. I wonder why.

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wrote:

I ran into both of those on 2 seperate samll engines.
On one the gas shut off was backwards from what I am used to seeing , when cross ways to the line it was on instead of off. Took about 20 minuits to find that as I kept turning it off and on and the tiller it was on would run for about 30 to 60 seconds.
The other was a 5 KW generator. It had an on/off switch that was not mentioned in the manual. As it was dark the first time I tried to start it, I missed it and about an hour later the power came back on. Found it the next day in the sun light.
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On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 20:01:25 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster

A business card works pretty well to adjust the mag clearance.
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