slab thickness

And I have had to tear out concrete that didn't break at the spec'd pressure after 28 days. I didn't pay for it though, the cement plant did. They paid for the new concrete, the labor, the disposal of the old concrete, everything.

When you do this to them a couple of times, they start paying close attention to the mix and their quality controls at the plant. Whenever I order concrete now, I always tell them that the testing lab will be there to take samples and do a slump test (whether they are or not). They are minding their Ps and Qs, then.

We have had the odd batch not break at 3500 or 3000, but it is usually in an area where it doesn't matter, so it doesn't have to be torn out. They sometimes break at 2900 or 3400, but for a slab on grade, that is fine. When you get into retaining walls and other critical systems, the heat is on, and if you have all of your paperwork in order, it is on the supplier.

Whenever I have to call the plant and tell them that their concrete is subpar, the first question I always get is How much water did you add? For that reason, I always have the drivers indicate on the delivery ticket if water was added and who requested it. Sometimes the drivers will add water on the way to the job to keep the mix turning. If it is a spec'd job with tests in place, that can come back to haunt them.

Moral: Always keep your delivery tickets, indicate water added, and test, test, test.

Reply to
Robert Allison
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Can you actually catch them if they don't "'fess up", though?

When I drove one summer while in high school for a local mix service here (classmate's Dad owned the place) there would have been no way to prove it as they, at least, weren't monitoring onboard water consumption...I suppose w/ "real" construction, that's done now.

(Note--Otto only let us kids deliver to the oil well sites where you couldn't mess anything up other than bury it to the axles in mud... :) )

Reply to
Duane Bozarth

Anybody answer how thick and what PSI concrete one should have for a driveway to support a 25K# truck or trailer?

Also how pricey is it to have a testing person to do a slump test on site.

In my neck of the woods (S WI) the big bear of a problem here is chert

- for some reason in the winter the stuff explodes leaving divots in the concrete. Seems the cheap jobs and the city sidewalks all have these divots.

Reply to
butch burton

Steve...what state do you work in?

Reply to
frippletoot

And if it needs to be 'pumped', I guess the slump is less, right ..so it can flow thru the pump easier ?

Reply to
Rudy

Just an observation based on my poured driveway. Had a contractor who normally does commercial work do it, they were slow last winter.

They used 3/8 rebar, tied in 16" squares. The perimeter was 6" thick. Foreman said the thicker perimeter serves two purposes. 1. Like a house concrete perimeter, serves as a beam. 2. Prevents water runoff wash from undermining the slab. The driveway itself is 3" thick. Simlar technique on the apron at the street. No frost line in the area, too warm a climate.

Reply to
Lil' Dave

Well, if I have a delivery ticket that says no water was added, and the test breaks at 2800 for a 3500 PSI concrete, who is responsible? The plant! That is what I am talking about. If you order 3500 PSI mix and you don't get it, it is the cement plant that has to fix it.

Reply to
Robert Allison

Robert Allison wrote: ....

That surely, is the "proof"...I was just curious during the finger-pointing phase if the driver tried the "not me!" trick whether with newer mix trucks water usage might be monitored...

Reply to
Duane Bozarth

Slump would then be greater, not less...

Reply to
Duane Bozarth

According to butch burton :

I think this needs 6", plus a well compacted gravel base, and rebar/mesh.

4000PSI or better methinks.

It shouldn't be necessary - just stress to the supplier that it needs to be on-spec.

Sounds like "spalling", rather than issues with chert. Usually caused by inadequate air entrainment. This is something you specify when you order. You're best off hiring a "real" concrete contractor to do the job or at least spec it out for you. A civil engineer could be used to spec the thing if you're going to contract it out yourself.

Reply to
Chris Lewis

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:54:04 GMT, "Lil' Dave" scribbled this interesting note:

That perimeter bean serves another function as well. A floating slab will do just that...float. That perimeter beam helps keep the monolithic slab exactly where it was placed and it no longer wants to float around on the surface of the ground.

-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

Reply to
John Willis

I would go with a minimum of 6-inch thick on a minimum 6-inch compacted crushed rock (3/4" minus) base. You can help spread loads if you use a geotextile between the gravel and native material.

Specify a minimum 3500 psi low-slump concrete with 6% air entrainment.

Provide 1-1/4" deep crack control joints - either tooled or saw cut every 150 sq.ft. (maximum). For example, if the driveway is 12 feet wide then put a joint every 12 feet. Joints should be cut as soon the surface is hard enough to walk on.

Reply to
Bob Morrison

One way to do that is to tell the plant that you want the water tanks full when they arrive at the jobsite. That leaves the driver the option of adding water and then stopping somewhere and refilling the tanks, but I don't think that they are that devious. Most drivers I have found to be pretty honest. I can't imagine a situation where one would want to ruin your mix just to be mean. Especially when they know that their jobs could be on the line for it.

You can also check the level of the water tank on the truck when it arrives and when it leaves, keeping in mind that if the truck is not on level ground, the readings could be different if it moves.

Reply to
Robert Allison

Exactly. And if you are pumping the mix, you have to let the plant know that in advance. It requires a certain size of aggregate and a 5-6" slump, which means that the plant has to adjust the mix so that when it cures, it is at the right PSI.

You can't just order standard 3000PSI mix, then add water to get it through the pump.

Reply to
Robert Allison

Reply to
KATHLEEN M

Yes, but rebar will help prevent problems is there is a soft spot in the ground under the slab that settles a little. It can also prevent cracks from opening up or shifting vertically.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

Matt:

Quite true. However, I tell the contractors to spend their time and effort on subgrade preparation. It's easier to do than correctly placing rebar, and with the current price of steel may even be cheaper.

A good unreinforced slab on properly prepared subgrade with adequate crack control should not have any problems.

Reply to
Bob Morrison

NY Code for concrete cover of reinforcing

TABLE 1907.7.1 MINIMUM CONCRETE COVER

MINIMUM

COVER

CONCRETE EXPOSURE inches

  1. Concrete cast against and permanently exposed to earth 3
  2. Concrete exposed to earth or weather

No. 6 through No. 18 bar 2

No. 5 bar, W31 or D31 wire, and smaller 1-1/2

If I'm reading that right, and you can figure out a way to cast the driveway above grade and then lower it into place (!), you can go with as little as a 3" slab. Otherwise you need 6" if it's cast in place and reinforced.

Weird thing. If you _reinforce_ it, code requires a thicker slab!

Bob's got it right, the slab doesn't move unless something underneath it does. Preparation - drainage, compaction, etc. - is the key.

R R R
Reply to
RicodJour

Rico:

Your math is almost correct:

1-1/2" top cover 1/2" (actually 5/8" OD) for #4 Longitudinal bar 1/2" (actually 5/8" OD) for #4 transverse bar 3" bottom cover

Total = 5-3/4"

Using #3 bards drops the total to 5-1/2"

You would need at least that much concrete to get the steel to bond properly anyway.

Reply to
Bob Morrison

Again with the math! You're such an engineer sometimes. ;)

They allow some leeway with the coverage - I believe it's +/- 3/8".

Oh, and coming from a woodworking background, I half-lap my rebar so it's only one layer thick. ;)

R
Reply to
RicodJour

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