shower valve replacement - plumbing job I've never done

[TimR]

My shower needs replacement. The drip can't be stopped, new washers and se at do nothing, and the stem slips. I've tried the specialty places and the y don't even recognize the brand, it seems to be the original 1962 installa tion. My plan was a new stem and seat but we couldn't find one that would fit.

So probably time to just replace. But that's a job I haven't done.

It is a two handle shower, which I like. I see you can still get those, I thought it was going to have to be a one handle conversion. Is there anyth ing wrong with going back with a two handle? One that will last and be eas y to replace parts on, I really would like this to be the last time I do th e job.

I am going to have to cut the wall on the other side to get access, and tha t won't be easy - it's plaster and metal lath, not drywall.

But not having seen the inside of one of these, I'm wondering how hard it w ill be to get everything connected back up. I'm guessing it is galvanized pipe but I won't know until I get it open.

Or am I going the wrong direction?

[hubops]

just a couple side-points : : plaster and wall-board from that era sometimes contains asbestos : I've seen a shower valve casting partly "eaten away" inside - by ~ 35 - 40 years of well water - preventing new internal parts from making a seal - perhaps yours is badly corroded inside ? : I would suspect copper rather than galvanized in 1962 : plan your job & buy stuff after you've opened up the wall for a look. You're going in the right direction, when it's the only direction. :-) John T.

[DerbyDad03]

seat do nothing, and the stem slips. I've tried the specialty places and t hey don't even recognize the brand, it seems to be the original 1962 instal lation. My plan was a new stem and seat but we couldn't find one that woul d fit.

I thought it was going to have to be a one handle conversion. Is there any thing wrong with going back with a two handle? One that will last and be e asy to replace parts on, I really would like this to be the last time I do the job.

If you want to stick with 2 handles, look for one that has anti-scald. You may not find them at a home center (I haven't checked) but they are available. I think Danze carries that style, but I don't have time to check right now.

Do you have a second shower? My guess is that this isn't going to be a one-day job. It will probably involve multiple trips to the store, like many plumbing jobs done by DIY'ers, so a second shower would really be nice .

(I wasn't planning on remodeling the basement bathroom that I use, but when SWMBO wanted me to do the main bathroom, I knew I had to bring the basement bathroom up to snuff because it was going to be used for quite a while.)

hat won't be easy - it's plaster and metal lath, not drywall.

will be to get everything connected back up. I'm guessing it is galvanize d pipe but I won't know until I get it open.

[Vic Smith]

That depends on if going in from the shower wall is an option. Since you probably want to replace the drains too, opening the other side is the best option. The piping should be the same everywhere, unless it's been repiped. Just measure the new piping carefully and you shouldn't have a problem. Or get plumber bids after opening the wall. Make sure you frame an access hatch when closing the wall.

[trader_4]

Whether it's likely copper or galvanized can be determined by what's in the rest of the bathroom, house, etc where it's visible. He better hope it's copper. If it's gavlvanized he may be opening up a whole, bigger can of worms and even if not, even redoing that one part over to copper can be a major PIA. All depends on where the fittings are and if you can find an accessible spot to transition. If it comes to that PEX might be a better choice.

[Stormin' Norman]

It is probably preferable for you to replace with the same two handle configuration, that way you can avoid tile repair. However, the distance between the handle centers is important, so, get out your tape measure. Typical distances between handle centers are 8" and

10".

Also, is this strictly a shower or is it a shower / tub combo?

I have had excellent experience with valves that utilize ceramic discs instead of old style washers.

Great fun, be sure you cut a generous enough opening to allow for safe and easy sweating of your connections. Make sure you have a fireproof welding blanket to protect the inside of your walls and, of course, have a fire extinguisher handy.

If you aren't comfortable with sweating pipes, you can easily use sharkbite connectors and pex pipe to plumb the valve. This video will give you an idea of using that approach.

Do you have other galvanized water supply pipes in your house? Considering the vintage, I would think the supply pipes are copper.

[Stormin' Norman]

Oops, skip the question above, I have never seen a two handle shower / tub combo, not sure how that would work. Too early, not enough coffee, excuse, excuse, excuse...... :-)

[TomR]

To TimR from TomR (no relation),

I am getting ready to do almost the same thing fairly soon. You said that you have a "two handle" shower faucet, but mine is a "3 handle" shower faucet -- hot, cold, and a diverter handle in the middle.

I tried to find some YouTube videos, but I couldn't find any that show this type of replacement. They all seem to show how to replace and old 2 or 3 handle shower faucet with a single handle shower faucet. I'll post the links to two YouTube videos below just to give you some ideas, but they are not exact videos for what you and I are talking about doing.

In the end, after watching some of the YouTube videos, I may end up converting my 3 handle shower faucet to a single handle shower faucet.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, you will need to open up the back wall and see what you have now -- probably copper not iron pipe. And, after you open the wall, you may want to look at Home Depot or Lowes or wherever for "access panels". They are inexpensive and you can use them to add an easy access panel where you made the hole in the wall rather sealing up the hole permanently.

My 3 handle shower faucet has 1/2-inch copper pipe and fittings. I will need to cut each of the copper pipes (4 cuts -- hot, cold, line up to the shower head, and line down to the tub faucet). Then, I will be able to just pull out the old 3 handle shower faucet fixture.

When I go to solder the new fixture in place, I will probably need some

1/2-inch "slip" couplings (also known as couplings with "no stop"). It means a copper coupling that slides over the pipe but does not have a "stop" in the middle on the inside. That way, when there is no room to move the copper pipes on each side of the fitting (coupling), you can just slide the coupling all the way on to one pipe, put the pipes together, then slide the coupling back so that half of it covers one pipe and the other half covers the other pipe -- then solder.

Here are the YouTube videos that I mentioned above:

[hubops]

Really ? ... quite common in the old days. John T.

[Stormin' Norman]

Well, I was certainly around in the "old days", refresh my memory, oh wait, did they use the stopper on the tub spout to divert the water to the shower? That seems somewhat familiar.

[hubops]

... ooops on me - I was thinking 3-handle. John T.

[TomR]

Me too -- at least about the part about how that would work.

I wonder if they only work for use as EITHER just a shower OR just a tub. I am not sure how it would be able to switch back and forth from tub use to shower use etc.

At first, I thought that maybe the tub faucet could have one of those switches on in to turn the faucet either on or off -- and maybe with the tub faucet off the water would divert up to the shower head. That seems a little iffy to me, but maybe that's how it works?

Here's a link to an exploded view of a two handle "Tub and Shower Valve", but it looks like, depending on where the plug is inserted, it can only be either a tub valve or a shower valve -- but not both:

[trader_4]

They use a diverter valve in the spout for the tub, that's one way. After the water is running into the tub, you pull it and it switches to the shower.

Bingo.

[TomR]

Thanks, I guess that's it. I guess with an open tub faucet there would be enough back pressure for the water to also back up to the height of the shower head and leak out there at the same time.

And, I did just find this image that shows it set up for tub and shower use with the diverter valve on the spout for the tub:

[TimR]

Thanks for the comments so far.

Any preference on brand, assuming I go back with two faucet?

I would like to avoid tile repair. But I do have spare tiles, the previous owner was a pack rat.

Yes, I have an additional shower in the basement, and yes I predict some do wntime. Of course there is no shutoff for the shower, but then none of the angle stops in the house actually hold anyway, so all my work is done shut off at the curb.

I had planned an opening big enough and an access panel. It will be behind a large vanity mirror so it won't show.

Yes, all DIY plumbing jobs take a minimum of 3 trips: one to buy the parts you think you need, a second one to buy the parts you really need, a third to replace the parts you broke or dropped down the hold. And that's just the minimum. I did have success on my last toilet repair in the minimum vi sits: one to replace the flapper valve, a second because I noticed the tan k bolts were leaking, a third because after I replaced all the tank washers the supply line leaked.

[bob haller]

after being unable to buy decent parts for my 3 handle tub shower valve, hot, cold, and shower i finally gave up and bought a single handle delta with temperature control. that was ac awesome upgrade. i highly recommend it/

[bob haller]

hot, cold, and shower i finally gave up and bought a single handle delta wi th temperature control. that was ac awesome upgrade. i highly recommend it/

when doing a bathroom upgrade i han a garden hose to a shower head and tied it in place right above the basement floor drain. after the first shower i added a shower curtain around it, it was freezing cold without the curtain . it worked great for the week or so till the job was complete.

our house had just one bathroom at the time

[Stormin' Norman]

Tim, I would look for one of the big name brands, Moen, American Standard, Pfister, kholer, etc. With a two handle design, I would look for a unit that uses ceramic discs instead of regular washers.

A great place to get your supplies is Amazon, they have excellent prices and you get to do the shopping in your PJ's

As for how long it will take, if you use the Sharkbite fittings and Pex tubing, once the wall is open you should be able to replace the existing unit within and hour and be back up and running. Of course that doesn't include wall repair.

Look on Amazon for the fittings, Pex tools and clamps. You can get a decent clamp tool there for less than $25.

[Mark Lloyd]

The combination in my parents' house had three handles. The one in the middle diverted water from tub to shower. I have seen others with 2 handles and a knob sticking out of the spout, marked "pull for shower" (IIRC it would go back to tub so you had to pull for EVERY shower).

[TimR]

Followup question:

I have to cut through plaster and metal lath. I guess it's expanded perf metal, from the tiny bit I can see through the faucet openings.

I would cut a hole from stud to stud, but it's a lot harder to find studs in plaster walls, at least for me. I hope the shower is centered between studs.

The web has recommendations for a Rotozip and a utility knife for cutting plaster down to lath. I have both, never tried the zip on plaster though. Or a dremel and a lot of cutoff blades. Anybody have a good way to do this job?