Should the U.S. pull out of Chicago ?

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On 12/28/2012 10:00 AM, hairy wrote:

In Chicago, it is a question of what came first, the chicken or the egg. Since Chicago has always met the nation's needs for beef, booze, trains that ran on time, they should get a little relief to do things the way they want:o) Obama, Durbin, and the rest have little to do with the gun laws in Chicago. If they would let any Republicans in, it would prove that the R's are as helpless in reducing gun crimes. Rich folks packed AA's into slums for generations, charged high rents, kept them from moving to decent neighborhoods and now wonder why there is so much crime.....kids in gang territory have to join to survive.
Interesting article in (Atlantic?) about the relation of high lead levels in environ. and the crime levels that follow in about 20 years. Not proof, and no proof is claimed, and the author has studied quite a few regions, including NYC, where the statistics for both problems are accurate. Mayor G. got a lot of credit for reducing crime, but it might have been due more to the reduction of lead in gasoline.
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wrote:

Your logic is obviously flawed. If what you say had any connection to the reduction of lead in gasoline the murder rate would be at an all time low.
Chicago and other big cities are perfect examples of how the liberal agenda continues at full speed and yet we don't see the utopia the liberals claim will appear if they have their way.
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On 12/28/2012 1:24 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

It isn't my logic, dearie. The article compared statistics for different areas and different periods. I found the comparison interesting. Brain damage from lead doesn't advance one's social functioning very well.

do nothing...."Just say no"? Drug war?
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wrote:

Of course it is your logic. You agree with it and you perpetuate it. Therefore, it is yours.

Then tell me how many decades of stealing from those who work to give to those too lazy to work has improved the lot of the lazy bastards. It has done nothing but make those more dependent on a system that will guarantee their poverty for life.
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Last time I checked, lead had been removed from ALL gasoline in the USA. NYC has a low murder rate. Chicago's is through the roof. You try to attribute murder rates to leaded gasoline and call someone else "mindless".
As for "rich folks" packing people into slums, it's actually you clueless libs that did that with five decades of failed welfare programs. You know, the ones that encourage fathers to leave families and teach people how to live generation after generation of public assistance.
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On 12/28/2012 4:38 PM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I didn't attribute crime rates to ANYTHING....READ WHAT I WROTE...I referred to an article I found interesting. The author of that article made no conclusions either....I haven't finished the article yet 'cause I've been real busy and it is a long one....so far the author has merely compared data for the lead polution levels and crime stats.

FWIW, I'm not liberal by a long shot and choosing to have children one cannot support is not behavior I support. I did live in Chicago a long time, and am familiar with politics, social issues, housing conditions, schools. Prejudice reaches deep into politics and continues to do harm.
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OK, so you didn't attribute lead in gasoline to crime rates yourself, you just dragged some nonsense article that flies in the face of reason in here that suggested it. Equally dumb. Happy now?
.I haven't finished the article yet 'cause

MAybe you should find out if there is a point before making a point?

It is history. The "slums" have greatly expanded and become full of violent crime since the creation of the war on poverty. We've spent trillions and the poverty rate is still the same. We do have many generations of the same family on welfare, drugs and violence as a result though.....

Do I hear the race card being played, yet again? But, no, you're not a lib.....
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On 12/29/2012 10:00 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Your "reason" is obviously not that of the educated masses....arguing for the sake of argument is what I consider "dumb". Since my first post, I have finished the article. There are plenty of articles online about the topic and you can easily find them if you are interested in the actual topic. And, yes, I remain very happy....got a house full of company and a turkey in the oven.

I said enough that anyone who is interested in the topic can buy the mag or Google it. 'Nuf said.

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But you won't simply post a link to make sure it's the same article you read?
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On 12/29/2012 11:39 PM, DD_BobK wrote:

Well, dimwit, 'splain how I can post a link to a paper copy of Jan 2013 issue of Mother Jones and I will do it.
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NOW you reveal that factlet......
But I digress, hey DW try this link.....
http://www.pdfmagazines.org/magazines/other/38569-mother-jones-january-february-2013.html
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On 1/1/2013 3:23 AM, DD_BobK wrote:

http://www.pdfmagazines.org/magazines/other/38569-mother-jones-january-february-2013.html
Nice cover....got $12.95?
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BIG SNIP

Norminn (aka DW)
Try again... scroll down & click on the link that says....
Download Mother Jones - January/February 2013
Read & follow the logic path. it leads to a free download.
Come on back if you need more help.
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wrote:

BIG SNIP

# # Norminn (aka DW) # #Try again... #scroll down & click on the link that says.... # #Download Mother Jones - January/February 2013 # #Read & follow the logic path. it leads to a free download. # # Come on back if you need more help.
Why would anyone want to download that piece of trash ??
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wrote:

....
To get an idea of other points of view (valid, invalid, interesting, whatever)..... To perhaps learn something?
To call the article "that piece of trash" without having read it, makes as much sense as Norminn throwing comments out about the article without providing the source so others might follow in depth.
I made a first read of most of the article.... I found it interesting. I'd have to read all of it (more than once) and follow up on references (explicit or implied) to attempt to answer the very valid question...
If NYC yes, then why Chicago no?
At all cities are alike so we're dealing with a multi-variable situation. Perhaps someone has or can tease out the "why".
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wrote:

....
# To get an idea of other points of view (valid, invalid, interesting, # whatever)..... # To perhaps learn something? # # To call the article "that piece of trash" without having read it, # makes as much sense as Norminn throwing comments out about the article # without providing the source so others might follow in depth. #
Try again The piece of trash was NOT directed at one article in a magazine that is a piece of trash (see how that works)
# # I made a first read of most of the article.... I found it interesting. # I'd have to read all of it (more than once) and follow up on # references (explicit or implied) to attempt to answer the very valid # question... # # If NYC yes, then why Chicago no?
Because it was not a causal claim
At all cities are alike so we're dealing with a multi-variable situation. Perhaps someone has or can tease out the "why".
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wrote:

My apologies for not following correctly what "that" was referring to.
The article itself is worth reading if only for it's interesting point of view.
"Because it was not a causal claim".... I know it wasn't a causal claim.
Perhaps if you read the article, it could be discussed.
cheers Bob
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Weather conditions are totally different.
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Maybe we'll start to get interested when you explain to us how the crime rate can be relatively low in NYC and high in Chicago if the lead in gasoline has anything to do with it. That was the premise of your post, was it not? And lead has been removed from gasoline across the entire USA at about the same time.
See, that's the difference. I'll start reading something and if it doesn't make sense, if some basic standards of reason aren't met, I'm not going to start making posts that say it's "interesting".
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On 1/1/2013 9:15 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I'm not about to copy the entire article to open your closed mind. I did post a couple of points made by the author, and there is lots of information online about the effects and origins of lead poisoning. I didn't make any claim that lead in gasoline was THE major factor in pollution or THE only cause of crime was lead poisoning. It is an easy concept to understand, with lead poisoning causing brain damage in children, resulting failures in school and social settings, etc.
I'm beginning to think you spent childhood chewing on windowsills.
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