Shingle Bid Comparision

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"John Willis" wrote in message

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Obviously you don't have much experience with chopped up roof systems. And OR you're using pieces under 6", which is a no no. I've seen waste as high as 15% on a 3 tab, the dimensionals won't have as much waste.

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This is a joke, right? Restocking 5-10% max., say on a $50 a square return the most it will cost is $5.00. The only way this is possible to run and pick up materials cheaper is, you don't pay your help nothing or your time isn't worth much to run and pick-up materials. $5 bucks won't pay for help and fuel let alone cost of vehicle and insurances rolled into it. This has to be one of the most ridiculous ways of "saving" money I've ever heard of. Each their own, but you won't get away with that mind set working for company.

Around here, paying by the square means subcontracting the job. If you're subbing the job or your help is doing that to you, I suggest new management, there's no other solution.
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this interesting note:

Where we operate most houses are a traditional ranch style home with either hip or gable roofs-about half and half. Newer houses around here have adopted a style more common in the northeast with very steep roofs and usually quite cut up. Both of these features make no sense around here since there is no snow load and the more planes and penetrations in a roof the higher the likelihood of leaks and other problems. Plus that much taller roof profile makes for an attic with far more volume to be ventilated.

Most suppliers around here charge a minimum 20% restocking fee. On a house of some size this can run into about $100-more or less depending on the size of the house, and taking into assumption that 20% waste that is unnecessary and will have to be returned in this scenario.

We do not pay by the square, ever, because of this problem. We do one job at a time and have for just about thirty years. We manage every installation personally. We do not subcontract out for general contractors.
Seems like you have your ideas on how to manage your business and we have ours. Both will work, both can be right. Efficiency for you obviously means something different than it means for us, but as long as the job gets done well, on time, and for the specified payment, then all is good.
-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
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"John Willis" wrote in message

John,
I don't know where you get your #'s from. It was _you_ that was bragging about being so close you _only_ came up one bundle shy on the job. I have no doubt you _think_ that was excellent, and never figured how much extra it cost to get that $12 bundle between actual time and direct costs. Being conservative if you pay your help a modest $15 per hour, plus with actual costs, the figure is probably closer to $50 to get that extra bundle.
No one said to add 20% to all jobs except you. You yourself laid out all considerations for waste factor, after you said "Not True" when I said "Waste is factored into the style of roof. "
Now, even at 20% restocking charge, in order to hit $100 +/-, you have to return $500 worth of supplies. On the high side of $50 per square, you would be returning 10 square. Now to hit 10 square, a 100 square job @ 10% waste would be there, this is with 0% waste. I really haven't seen maybe 3 homes being 100 square residential here locally, and seriously doubt this is the norm in your area. Most residential homes we have been involved with are in the 30 square range. 10% waste factor would be 3 square, this would be a cut up roofline. Leaving 2 bundles on site, brings the waste down to 2-1/3 square. Now using your 4% waste (remember this is a cut up roofline, hardly possible only 4%) comes out to 1.2 square. You would have one square extra to return. Being $50 per square, 20% restock charge would cost you $10, far cry from $100 =/- . Being a cut up roofline, in reality you would use over 4% waste.
Now you tell me, which is more efficient?
If you're going to throw figures around, at least be halfway sensible about it.
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This will cost about $6500 in California, with the tear-off being maybe $2000 of it.
Dimitri
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- Nehmo-

don't
But
from
pitch,
homeowner,
nor
- Dimitri Gerasimatos -

maybe
- Nehmo - It looks like you're in nothern California. That's a good answer.
--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
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They get $300.00 per square here but that includes putting down plywood. So a 25 square roof would be $7500.00.
--
JerryD(upstateNY)
This will cost about $6500 in California, with the tear-off being maybe
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In Mass. Applies to standard fiberglass shingles of any flavor. Roofers working for contractors on new construction getting $40-$50 per square, labor, to start. Working for homeowners (I heard) getting $75 to $90. Price varies by "extras" re: skylights $75 ea, dormers $150 ea, center chimney, 2 or more long cheeks, etc, etc. Tear off is double the install rate, typically. Materials you gotta figure, too many variables to go by sq ft today. My standard speced roof is about $100 per sq for materials. Why the difference between builders and homeowners? Builders shoulder the warranty, preparation, tie-in, and follow the unwritten rules of the trades. Homeowners are demanding and much less forgiving of cosmetic errors. A homeowner will call a roofer back to remove a few stray nails left on the roof.

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To give a little more info on the MA roofing trade where we operated (central). We were seeing roofers working new construction smacking down shingles for as low as 30$ a square especially for architectural. In our area many roofers would actually cut their labor slightly to get the customer to go with architectural over three tab due to the speed of installation. They would tell the customer they will give them architecturals for the same price as three tab basically. I think three tabs are going to go the way of the wind before long as the prices are close enough where the added labor of the three tabs is easily overcome by the speed of architecturals. I would make a $15 per square adjustment in trade for speed in a second but I can see where there would still be jobs where that's make or break.
The rule of thumb for us (very rough gauge) was always 150/square for re-roof or new and 250/square to strip. That price however was no longer competitive given the guys working at 30$/square. We actually liked not being competitive as we hated roofing and its hard to make any money at it when roofers our gouging each others eyes out for the work.
As an actual gauge, just before we left MA 2 years ago, our neighbor asked us to put a roof on their house and we told them they could easily get it cheaper from a roofer we knew. They had a two story colonial, breezeway, 2 car garage. All walkable and all separate roofs but connected, no valley's. If I recall correctly the roof was 20-22 square. They stripped and installed the roof with architecturals in three days and the price was just under 5K (I want to say like 4900.00 or something). This falls in the 220/square range. They had to pay an extra 250-300 or so if I recall to have a mason come in an point up the chimney flashing and some other things the roofers spotted.
In our new location (WV) this would be a bit less, perhaps 100 for new/reroof and 200 to strip I would guess. Labor here is a bit less but building materials are more although roofing materials are pretty comparable in price.
Mark
Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:

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On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 05:08:04 GMT, "Nehmo Sergheyev"

Other than curiousity, what good does this comparison do ? Obviously there are reasons why they vary from location to location aside from the conditions of the roof being worked upon.
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