Sewage gases: check valve?

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On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:24:56 +0000 (UTC), Wayne Whitney

No standpipe required at all with a direct mechanical connection. No vent required when connected directly into the top of a 4" pipe. No trap required if the directly connected washer unit holds water in the pump when shut down (which it most definitely will if pumping up 60 inches or so into the pipe.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

In Ontario.
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Aaron Fude wrote:

i don't think that will work, cause the sump pump check valves are just a gravity style without a spring. If installed upside down, it'll just hang open.
s
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Aaron Fude wrote:

another thought, unless your stated 'horizontal line' is on the ceiling, all you have to do is get above it. The washer will pump several feet of head without problem.
s
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On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:11:51 -0500, Steve Barker

He said about 18 inches below the ceiling. There is NO problem Just install as I recommended in an earlier post, as advised by my plumber.
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On Oct 22, 8:57pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Curious. You see no possibility that your one plumber might have an opinion that is at variance with other plumbers, equally skilled, or a building inspector, who may be very skilled or not but still has the final word?
This is the typical washing machine hose to PVC connector: http://doitbest.com/PVC+fittings-Fernco+Inc-model-PHG-1-doitbest-sku-416126.dib Note the little holes. You seem to be saying make a tight connection, no venting/equalization holes, no trap, and call it good. You're saying that a washing machine doesn't need a trap. If that were the case, why would anyone ever put in a trap? It's obviously simpler to do it your way.
I don't necessarily foresee any complications in use doing it your way, but I don't see how it would pass code. Code calls for a trap. Some people don't care about code, many building (and home) inspectors do.
Just saying...
R
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On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:35:06 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour

This guy was one of the leading master plumbers in our metropolitan area and has done it many times and passed inspection.
Are you aware of anyone who has done it this way and NOT met inspection requirements?
If not, go away.
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On Oct 23, 11:36am, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Leading...? Are they ranked where you are? What does a plumber use as a batting average or Golden Glove equivalent?

I don't personally know of anyone who has been bitten by a raccoon. That does not mean it doesn't happen.

I think it's sweet that you take it personally when someone asks you a question. It means you're a sensitive thing and/or have a crush on the old guy. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I'll repeat my question: You're saying that a washing machine doesn't need a trap. If that were the case, why would anyone ever put in a trap? It's obviously simpler to do it your way.
R
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On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 08:44:05 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour

He owned and ran one of the most respected plumbing firms in the area - that's what I mean by "leading"
Well respected by contractors and homeowners - if you had a plumbing problem and could get Ed, you got Ed.
The reason traps are almost universally used on washers is because washers are USUALLY not hard-plumbed into the system. USUALLY they dump into a laundry tub, and more commonly as time goes by, into a standpipe connected to the laundrey tub drain. With an open connection, a trap is required. With a "gravity drain" a pump is required.
With a pumpout system that holds water in the pump, a trap is not required.
It is still simpler, for most people, in most instances, to simply provide a standpipe (with trap) or dump into a laundry tub - both of which require the very simple installation of a trap.
And as I stated, if YOU want a trap, it is very simple in the situation described to add a trap to the setup. According to my plumber it is not required if done as described, but he did say it would be very simple to include a trap if desired (or if the washer pump did not hold enough water to maintain a seal). In his experience, he has not found an automatic washer that does not retain enough water to maintain a seal, UNLESS it has a siphon break at the top of the washer, which could not only allow a gas vent, but could also prevent pumping the water higher than the top of the washer.
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On Oct 23, 1:52pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Sounds like a capable fellow.

In existing houses, sure, the standpipe or tub drain is the way it's been done, and that's what people are used to, but what about new construction? New home builders aren't exactly the sort to throw money away. If the fitting is as simple as "insert hose, tighten clamp, and you're done", why would anyone bother with a trap at all?
I am not saying it could not work, but it might not be allowed to work. If the building inspector says no, it's no. I wish there were some building inspectors on this newsgroup for such questions to provide an AHJ opinion.
R
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On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:16:35 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour

The builder would have to supply the washer for it to be a "hard-plumbed" solution.
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On Oct 23, 3:35pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

It would be no different than a cleanout. Until it's put into use it's capped.
R
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On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:35:06 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour

THAT fitting is not the one to use. It is made for use with a "standpipe" Dumping directly into a 4" sewer lateral does not require external venting, as the pipe does not flow anywhere near full, and so is "self venting" to the stack.
A trap works by keeeping a "wet seal". A washing machine drain pump is at the bottom of the machine and ALWAYS holds water unless gravity drained. Since the hose goes UP from the pump, water will always remain in the "trap" of the pump when the pump is shut off.
A trap is only required to keep gases from being able to exit to the inhouse environment - and I did state that an "s trap" could be installed if you felt it was required. - but in my plumber's extensive experience it has not been an issue.
So yes, in answer to your question, an airtight connection with no venting or equalization holes, and in all likelihood no trap either. If you want to be "safe" install a trap above the sewer latteral and then continue as described.
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